New To Central Square

[irishbobcat]

I am sure there are hundreds of people who live in Youngstown who violate
several city ordinances every day......

don't see the police or mayor cracking down on them......

If this ordinance was such a big deal....why was it not enforced when the barrel
and tent first went up?

Once again we see a mayor and police chief get ticky tacky over what rules they will
and will not enforce.....

Hey mayor, I think your time and energy is better spent fighting crime and murder in the
city than tearing down a tent.....

That's why the city of Youngstown continues to be in bad shape....leadership at the top
who can't figure out the real priorities of running the city......

[sfc_oliver]

Dennis, the law is still the law. If the police ordered the tent etc to be removed it was because it was breaking a city ordinance. That's it, end of story. They can stand there and show their signs until the cows come home. Just doesn't matter. But they cannot have a burn barrel and a tent without proper authority which they may or may not be able to get.....

I am thankful that they stayed out of the way and were respectful during the 2 Veteran Ceremonies this past week. I have no doubt that the same situation in other places they would have made their presence known...........

[sfc_oliver]

Umm... Did Irish Bobcat say something ? 


I have put him on ignore, and long since learned to just say no to "Show me the post"


LMAO

Yep I did that for several months too. I just this week took him off ignore status. I don't know why.....

[irishbobcat]

Towntalk.......

I think there is a vast difference between taking a baseball bat to somebody's head
and pitching a tent downtown......

Again, You think these protestors are more like  the hippies of the 1960's than those
at the Boston Tea Party.....

Funny, it seems to me that today's protestors are like the folks from the Boston Tea Party....
fighting the constant attacks of big business on taking more money from common citizens...

Wasn't that what the Boston Tea Party was all about? The huge corporate East India Tea Company
imposing more taxes on the middle class colonists so that these taxes went back to the rich King
and legislators in England...one needs only to know that these legislators were major stockholders
in the East India Tea Company...so they basically used a corporation to take more money from the colonists....

What real harm are the protestors doing to downtown? What real problems are they causing?

Is their presence downtown really causing an image problem for the mayor and the police chief?

I would think the weekly murders in the city and rampant crime and drugs on the street would be more of a concern
for the mayor......

My God....the fact that the mayor had to call out a number of police and firefighters to remove a barrel and tent
is funny. I think the police would be more useful on patrol in the major crime areas of the city....

[AllanY2525]

Umm... Did Irish Bobcat say something ? 


I have put him on ignore, and long since learned to just say no to "Show me the post"


LMAO

[sfc_oliver]

This was taken just about noon when they said they were having a meeting. All 5 of them?

[Towntalk]

Update

http://www.vindy.com/news/2011/nov/12/occupiers-plan-to-hold-their-ground/

[Towntalk]

Civilized society is based on the rule of law, and absent law we have anarchy. We can't pick which laws we will obey and which laws that we will refuse to obey.

I happen to think that I have the right to place a baseball bat up side the head of anyone who looks different than me in such a manner that they will not soon forget it, but if I do, I know for a certainty that I'll be punished by John Law.

The day that we can pick and choose which laws we will obey, and which we will refuse to obey with no subsequent penalty is the day we devolve into the law of the jungle.

The right to protest injustice is as old as America, and we need only to look back to the Boston Tea Party, but in the instent case the protesters are not in the same situation as the folks back in the 1770's by any stretch of the imagination, and they would garner more respect from the public at large if they didn't act like a collection of 1960's era hippies.

While the Constitution guarintees their right to protest, it doesn't guarintee their right to be comfortable.

The same by the way holds just as true for strikers. I don't make distinctions between protesters and strikers.

And again I ask, Since The Lemon Grove instigated the protest in the first place, just what are they doing for the protesters?

When a union goes on strike, the union sees to it that the strikers on the picket line are fed at union expense. Is the Lemon Grove supplying those on the protest line with food, or do the protesters have to buy their own meals?

[irishbobcat]

Funny, I can remember strikes all around this valley where strikers stood by barrels, sat in lawn chairs,
and set up tents for shelter so folks could stay overnight or from out of the elements when it
rained or snowed....

Why is this protest different?

So, if they stayed downtown overnight without a barrel or without a tent...you would have no problem
with them....but if they are using a few items like a fire or tent for a little comfort they are not allowed?

Seems like man throughout time has sought to find and use items to make their lives more comfortable.....
but at this time and at this protest these folks are not allowed to do so?

Just because the city has "ordinances" doesn't make it right......

What problems are they really causing?

You proved my point about the pub crawls and festivals...as long as they bring money to downtown and the city
you have no problem with those events.....Funny, I have seen times when there have been problems at these
supervised events...and no problems have been reported at the protest site.....

[Towntalk]

Aside from the organizers, I can not confirm that the rank- in- file protesters are tax payers in and of themselves with the tax dollars coming out of their own pockets. For all I know, they could be on welfare, not that that disqualifies them.

Having been a union shop stewart at one of my jobs, and having participated in a protest strike, far be it from me to condemn any legitimate protest provided it is conducted in such a manner that it doesn't cause problems.

The family members in both demonstrations were in Washington.

Again I didn't say that they should be chased out of downtown. They can be there till the cows come home .. ie indefinitely, but within the guidelines set out in city ordinances.

Unlike others, I'm just as angry as you as to what corporations have done, especially the banking industry, so there is no real arguments there.

As to corporations chasing jobs out of the country, we're also in agreement there.

There is though a massive difference between the Hooverville and Bonus March protests. The great depression was on, people all over the country were hurting big time, and the President sent in the Army to break up the protests under the direction of Douglas McArthur, and in both cases people were killed. Our family lost all respect for McArthur for that.

As to the other questions I already said that my own beef is not with their conduct as a whole, but simply with the tent and burn barrel, lawn chairs etc.

As to the BW3 and the pub crawls, the festivals and the like, they are supervised events that bring folks downtown and I have no objection to them.

[irishbobcat]

Towntalk......

Were members of your family removed from Hoovervilles in the 1930'S?
Or were they allowed to assembly on the grounds of Washington D.C. at the time?

Again, why should these folks be removed from downtown?
How much garbage and litter problems were there?
The site looked clean to me when I visited....a barrel of wood to keep warm,
wood for burning neatly out of the way and undercover.....
Some tarp to stay out of the rain...... What is the problem?
I am sure families leave more trash on the lawn after the summer movie series
at the Covelli Centre than the folks left at the Occupy Youngstown site.....

You only care to only address my point on Hoovervilles........what about all the other questions I asked
or raised?

What disrespect have these protesters shown? What problems have they caused?
Are they blocking traffic? Are they using the city streets and sidewalks as their bathrooms?

How are they an eyesore to the community and downtown? Seems the city fathers don't have a problem
with all the litter left over from the weekly Friday concerts in front of BW3's during the summer...nor do the city fathers have a problem
when drunks stroll downtown from bar to bar during the many pub crawls held throughout the year....

But I guess the city is ok with those events because they bring in money....and the occupy Youngstown Protest doesn't....

[jay]

Someone asked these questions today

Why didn't the city of Youngstown send the YPD to take down the scaffolding around the PNC Building?  This was an eyesore that existed for many many months.

What about the building on West Federal Street on which vinyl siding was installed in violation of some design standard?  Maybe the vinyl siding should have been removed by the city too?

[Towntalk]

By the way Dennis, members of my family were also involved in the Bonus March in 1932.

[Towntalk]

ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION: YES TWICE.

As for your remarks about "Hoovervilles" you have absolutely no idea about what you're talking about, and that is an ABSOLUTE FACT. In point of FACT members of my family were involved in that historic protest. So without even personally knowing me your assumptions fall flat on their face.

Given that FACT you owe me an APPOLOGY since, while disagreeing with you, I have always shown you respect, and will in the future since we are all in possession of the God given right to express our opinions that goes above and beyond any and all government dictates, and I EXPECT the same from YOU.

[irishbobcat]

Towntalk and Allen:

Have you been down to the site? I have.....it is neat and clean.....there is no crap or
$hit they have thrown about......
How are they interfering with the quality of enjoyment of downtown?
How is their tent and barrel harming the property values of downtown?

There site is clean.....a lot cleaner than some of the outside sidewalks in front of some
businesses downtown......Heck,we  have volunteers, people who live downtown and
across the city, who come downtown on a daily basis and sweep up the litter, papers, bottles,
and cans in front of some of these "established" businesses. Heck, I even found a bullet on the sidewalk
in front of one business during the summer.....

And why can't the protesters use taxpayer property? Are they not taxpayers? Are they not citizens?

I guess during the Great Depression folks like towntalk and allen would have destroyed and killed all the folks
who created "Hooverville" shacks in Washington DC during the depression....because it was something that you folks considered
an eyesore.....

Yes, again, the rights of the poor to protest are met with ridicule....they are told to pack up......
yet you folks have no problem when big business and corporations  use lobbyists to protest Congress
so big business and corporations can "be heard" and have actions taken to allow them to make more profit
and put more money into the overly-rich CEO's that run the show.....

Protesters in other cities may have caused damage and problems in there cities......and they should be dealt with.....
The protesters in downtown Youngstown have not.....they are peaceful......they are people who live in this city......
they are your neighbors... they have not been bussed in from California or New York......


The police chief of Youngstown should spend more time and action trying to stop the city-wide killings that are
harming the city's image more than trying to stop a small number of individuals standing around a fire barrel and
tent.....

The mayor says he was wrong in allowing the protesters to be on the corner because like children, "when you give them an inch, they take a mile"...

Hey Mayor....stop worrying about these "kids"....spend your time and energy cleaning up the crime, drug deals, and violence in the city FIRST!!!!!!