New To Central Square

[sfc_oliver]

Please tell us what change that the Occupiers in Youngstown are wanting to bring about...

And so far they really haven't really been disobedient. Not sure if they even have the guts.....

But if they did they would lose even more support.

[irishbobcat]

Sorry Ricky, but there have been times in American History when Civil Disobedience was
needed to help bring about change in America.......

Ask your founding fathers whom you like to quote so much.....

[Rick Rowlands]

Yes I do, but I comply with the law.  I advocate changing laws at the voting booth, apparently your side advocates civil disobedience and law breaking. 

[irishbobcat]

Funny how neo-con Ricky at other times on this forum attacks government as
being overbearing and gets in the way of people's personal lives....
but now Ricky praises government action because it tramples a liberal cause....
and gets in the way of people on the left....

Ricky only supports government when it agrees with his far right wing agenda...

[Rick Rowlands]

It was in violation of the city code, and maintaining the public square is a good use of the city's resources.

[sfc_oliver]

Dennis, just because you and your friends got butt hurt, doesn't mean that your rights were stepped on. Now go pick up your sign and make another pass around the bench.....

[irishbobcat]

So sending police and firefighters to downtown to remove one barrel and one tent
is a good use of the city's resources? Please....

Maybe the mayor should send the police to the high crime areas of the city instead of going downtown
for a barrel and a tent.....

[Rick Rowlands]

What evidence do you have that the mayor is "more upset"?   Maybe the mayor realizes that Youngstown is more than just the downtown and he is spreading the thin city resources to do the most good in the most areas.   

[irishbobcat]

Funny that the mayor gets more upset over a barrel and tent being on the sidewalk then
he does about broken sidewalks, manhole covers, and grates in downtown that takes weeks and even
months to fix......

Where are your real priorities Mayor?

[sfc_oliver]

I've actually been involved in 2 protests myself. One was when I was still in school during a teachers strike. We walked back and forth in front of South HS for about an hour then went home.

The other was just before I enlisted, Yes I took part in an anti-war protest. We had a permit which permitted us to walk up to 4 abreast from YSU Campus to the central Square where we held about a 2 hour rally then walked back to the campus. All the while obeying all traffic signals and signs....

These People are out there to grab headlines, remember they are not protestors they are Occupiers..... And our own locals are also after a headline. They wanted the police and the TV stations to show up at midnight. And I'm sure they were disappointed when they linked arms and no one came.............

They are welcome to walk and stand around the square until they wear a path in the sidewalk. Just follow the rules...

[Towntalk]

A chair at a parade has always been acceptable for the very simple reason that after the parade the chairs are remove by their owners. I doubt seriously that the parade watchers plan to stay there for an unspecified time. We're not talkin a Macy's parade here in Youngstown now are we? How long do our parades last, an hour at best?

In case you've forgotten my previous posts I made it quite clear that I do not and I repeat, I do not object to protest demonstrations in principal. THAT IS GUARINTEED under the Constitution. The only thing I object to is the way it's being carried out. These protesters are defying the police and trying to egg them into making arrests so that thy can become martyrs to the cause.

In my youth I was involved in a protest demonstration against City Hall and the Water Department, but we didn't drag out lawn chairs, set up tents or a burn Barrel, or chanted protest slogans. We simply marched around City Hall with our union made signs and yes, we got the results we were after.

[irishbobcat]

They can plan to stay there as long as they want to.....
or do you have a problem with that as well, Towntalk?

I do hope when Youngstown holds the Christmas Parade later this year....
nobody places a chair on the sidewalk to watch the parade.....

If they do....they need to have their chair taken away from them as well......

[Towntalk]

When you speak of true stifling of free speech two cases come to mind:

Case 1: The McCarthy Era when all forms of mass communion were censored and anyone falling afoul of the government could find themselves in prison.

Case 2: During World War II the Office of War Information was created to censor any and all news about the war, and while the print media could provide more information, the electronic press ie. radio, was strictly and heavily censored. Strangely, the head of OWI was one of the country's most respected radio news commentators, Elmer Davis who had worked for CBS.

In the case of the protesters, they are not being denied "free speech" as such. The police have made no attempt to arrest them, take away their signs, both representative of free speech.

Too often people use "free speech" far beyond what is contained in the First Amendment of the Constitution to embrace things that have absolutely nothing to do with the issue at hand.

Now granted, the protesters have behaved themselves, and we might even make that a given, but the fact remains that by having items on site that the city objects to, and which under any other circumstance would be barred to anyone else, can not and should not be ignored, regardless of who gave it to them.

By the way, I'm just as opposed to unions dragging out burn barrels, lawn chairs, and sleeping bags, so I'm not picking and choosing my arguments. The unions a I have said before rent store fronts as strike headquarters where strikers can go for food and shelter, and these locations are close enough to the strike sight that strikers are not inconvenienced.

Why didn't the Lemon Grove establish the protest headquarters at their establishment since they were the organizers of the protest? Could it be that they were afraid that the presence of the protesters would drive away paying customers?

[Towntalk]

Just how long do these folks plan to stay there? Surely they must know that they aren't going to bring about the changes they demand. As to council, we only have the word of the protesters that the Councilwoman provided them with the barrel, and until she confirms it, we must not make too much of it since the statement didn't come out of her mouth, nor have we heard from and other Councilman so we must not assume that they are in support of the protesers.

[jay]

From a story on page A9 of the Sunday, November 13 newspaper

"Councilwoman Annie Gillam actually had the first burn barrel delivered to the site"

There appears to be some difference of opinion between Council and the mayor.