City Fails Wick Park 2010 Test

[Rick Rowlands]

Tomorrow is a bad day.  Got to PM an excavator in the morning and then bust up a concrete floor in Masury the rest of the day.  Saturday is a better day for me.

[Youngstownshrimp]

Rick, read your book last night , very well done.

I thought I was the only one who felt like many in cyberspace do not exist in reality.

[Rick Rowlands]

I'm sorry that I missed you.  If you decide to try again let me know so I can plan to be there.  I am in and out, and usually visitors show up when I am "out".

[Rick Rowlands]

From a conversation that I had recently with a north side resident who deals with tax lien properties, it was possible to obtain the Van Sickle properties for approximately $2,500 in costs.  But some balked at that idea and instead we are now squabbling over the destruction of a dilapidated carriage house.  Lets think outside of the box and explore all options when the next opportunity arises. 

But even if those properties could have been secured, who would have taken ownership of them and who would have stepped in to maintain and improve them?  Lets face it, not many of the people on this forum are up to the task of repairing roofs, replacing window glass and maintaining large properties until new owners can be found. 

If I seem a bit jaded on this issue well then perhaps that is because I have come to the realization that in the last fifteen years that I have worked on my project, not a single one of you have ever bothered to lend support to my cause, nor even stepped foot on our property to see what I am doing to help our community.  None of you care one whit that I have spent so much of my time and money on this, and since I am not in the clique my contributions are not wanted or even recognized.   Our site is three miles from downtown and only about five blocks to the east of your precious carriage house, yet it might as well be on the moon.

I have the abilities, equipment and means to help make a difference in Youngstown.  Had this carriage house been spared I could have been on site and structurally shored up the building in half a day.  Had a vacant house been secured I could fix broken windows or repair a roof leak.  I would love to do it and would love to contribute.  I have a backhoe, truck and trailer, hand tools, generators and a full compliment of hand and power tools that stand at the ready.  But none of you have ever expressed one bit of interest in my project, and by your apathy have flushed one of your biggest potential supporters (and someone who can actually get stuff done) down the toilet!

Typical Youngstown!

[Lynds]

Considering the individuals involved, I think your statement that you are "sure they weren't going to move on it in the next month" is completely off base.

I think it is perfectly fair to ask the city to produce the structural assessment and condemnation notice that authorized the demolition of the carriage house on the basis of it being structurally unsound and therefore a safety hazard.

I don't think its offbase at all, at the agenda planning meeting we went off topic multiple times and began to talk about how to acquire the property, it was discussed then that if we acquire the tax lean then we could go ahead and begin to make improvements to secure the structure, that would have had to be done before January. That idea was shot down. Next was the idea of acquire the land through a new eminent domain law that is trying to be pushed through the legislature...having worked in the legislature, bills take longer then one month to go through committee hearings.

By no means was a taking a shot at the individuals involved.

[jay]

Did anyone from the Wick Park Neighborhood bring this up at the city council meeting today?

If not, it would be a good idea to make a formal presentation to council at the next city council meeting on December 2.

[DefendYoungstown]

P.S. A popular idea for the carriage house was to have it serve as a materials resource center for community based non-profits such has Neighborhood Improvement Corps (Community Tool Shed), Treez Please, Grow Youngstown and/or City Scape while creating a innovative community garden or landscape design utilizing the remains of the house or where the house stood. Renovations to the carriage house would have not been all that significant in order to carry out this mission. This is repurposing of the vacant lot creates vaule where none would exist (as it does now). $300,000 will be decidated to similar vacant lot repurposing efforts in the Idora neighborhood in 2010 by the newly formed Youngstown Neighborhood Development Corporation. It's happening in other places in the city.

Increased demolition is certainly necessary city-wide, however, it is not community development strategy in and of itself (particularly in a defined historic district next to the most heavily utilized city park). You can't demo your way out of this problem.

Youngstown needs to think innovatively and foster creativity utilizing the vacant property it has or is handed. What will now be an open field could have been an opportunity to bring citizens from the North Side and/or across the city together in a creative way and flipped a tragic situation upside down. Other community are not intersted in how much demolition we can execute. They are interested in how we use vacancy to our advantage.

[northside lurker]

The wood was cracked and broken through on this inside of the structure and there where visible wears and tears in the structures roof. There were also large holes (maybe sunk in stables) in the inside. Not to mention no signs of water or electrical and no insulation.

I'm a very imaginative person, when I was approached about purchasing the lean and acquire the tax title on the carriage house I was excited and ready to jump into property ownership, I was ready to be a young pioneer' and try to transform the place into a hip apartment with a large front yard that would be open to and utilized by the community... but once seeing the condition of the structure the rose glasses had to come off.

Any structure can be saved with enough will. (and money )

[northside lurker]

Why so much angst over the destruction of an old dilapidated garage, one of hundreds of old dilapidated garages in the city.

This is just my opinion, but:

- Because it was adjacent to Wick Park, and had architectural merit.  The garage behind my house is in much newer, and in much better shape, but has absolutely no architectural value.

- Now there is another completely open field adjacent to Wick Park, where there should be building fabric.  An old carriage house would have been better than grass.

You are creating controversy where none should exist.  The building had little chance of ever being reused, and the excavator was already onsite to clear the rest of the property.  Why should anyone have waited and then have to come back next year to do what they could do when already on site.

I had a reply for this, too.  But I think DefendYtown's letter covers it much better.

[DefendYoungstown]

This was sent to the administration:

"The carriage house at 259 Park Ave. was razed with city bulldozers yesterday morning despite the city's public commitment to preserve it until it was determined if an interim strategy could be developed for reuse. I called Bill D'Avignon who had no idea it was going to be torn down. Bill called the Street Dept. who stated that the structure was structurally unsound. The remainder of the structure (porch, pillars, foundation) of the house have also begun to be removed which was asked to be preserved (materials to be removed/stored for future community project work) for the same reason. The removal of remains of the structure is one thing and can be debated on its own merits, however, what is most troubling is the fact that no notification or communication was provided to the public (ie. any member of group who participated in last Monday's meeting) despite a public commitment to assist with preservation of the very site in front of 50 people and the media only one week ago. They simply tore it down.

Separate from the brazenness of the action and the blatant public mistrust it brings with it, there is a more important question that now needs to be raised: how legitimate is the city's commitment to assisting with protecting the remaining structures that immediately surround the park? We're talking about a handful of key properties in a designated historic district, not an entire neighborhood. Either the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing in City Hall (insert reason here) or the City is just paying the community lip service. Either is unacceptable.

Many good members of the community are furious...and don't be misled into thinking it's simply about the demolition of a carriage house...or even Wick Park. It goes much deeper than that. A large part of it is about the growing disconnect between City Hall (both between departments and with the community) and where we stand in regards to making the fundamental decisions that need to be made in order to self correct. A much more detailed discussion is being circulated among community members but I'm hearing it on every side of the city in almost every neighborhood I work with.

In regards to the Wick Park situation, specifically, here is an example of what I'm talking about:
City fails Wick Park 2010 test (Tyler's Blog Posting)

I write this email as friend more so than as a professional and I issue it as a word of objective caution because I care not only about the city but about the people of this administration. However, there are some things that the community feel needs to change. Some are obvious, others aren't and it would be a good idea to begin a dialogue about it with certain members of the community before we turn the calendar to 2010. To that end, I and others would certainly welcome the opportunity to assist in whatever is deemed appropriate."

Phil

P.S. In regards to Wick Park, there will be a meeting Monday 5:30pm @ Unitarian Church on Elm.

[Rick Rowlands]

Why so much angst over the destruction of an old dilapidated garage, one of hundreds of old dilapidated garages in the city.  You are creating controversy where none should exist.  The building had little chance of ever being reused, and the excavator was already onsite to clear the rest of the property.  Why should anyone have waited and then have to come back next year to do what they could do when already on site.

[Lynds]

it was quite a structure though, its too bad its gone. That picture is beautiful.

[Lynds]

I didn't even know this structure existed until I saw a post about it here a few weeks ago.  So, I'm not going to claim to know anything about it.  But, it was probably in bad shape for years already.  Unless there was a recent visible change in its shape, (For example, the roof in the above picture looks fairly straight.  Did it suddenly start to fall out of shape?) I'd say it would probably have lasted through the winter since it has lasted through the last few winters.  At the very least, I bet it would have cost less than demolition to construct some temporary bracing to stabilize it.

The wood was cracked and broken through on this inside of the structure and there where visible wears and tears in the structures roof. There were also large holes (maybe sunk in stables) in the inside. Not to mention no signs of water or electrical and no insulation.

I'm a very imaginative person, when I was approached about purchasing the lean and acquire the tax title on the carriage house I was excited and ready to jump into property ownership, I was ready to be a young pioneer' and try to transform the place into a hip apartment with a large front yard that would be open to and utilized by the community... but once seeing the condition of the structure the rose glasses had to come off.

[northside lurker]

what if the structure was structurally unsound? what type of timeline was in effect for the city or for the community to acquirer this land? I'm sure they weren't going to move on it in the next month, who thinks that structure would have lasted through winter with out repairs?

I hate to seem like I'm taking sides and I don't know the first thing about declaring a structure unsound or sound, but the carrage house WAS NOT in good shape at all last week Tuesday Nov 10th.

I didn't even know this structure existed until I saw a post about it here a few weeks ago.  So, I'm not going to claim to know anything about it.  But, it was probably in bad shape for years already.  Unless there was a recent visible change in its shape, (For example, the roof in the above picture looks fairly straight.  Did it suddenly start to fall out of shape?) I'd say it would probably have lasted through the winter since it has lasted through the last few winters.  At the very least, I bet it would have cost less than demolition to construct some temporary bracing to stabilize it.

[Lynds]

what if the structure was structurally unsound? what type of timeline was in effect for the city or for the community to acquirer this land? I'm sure they weren't going to move on it in the next month, who thinks that structure would have lasted through winter with out repairs?

I hate to seem like I'm taking sides and I don't know the first thing about declaring a structure unsound or sound, but the carrage house WAS NOT in good shape at all last week Tuesday Nov 10th.