Democratic Party's Respect For The Flag

[Towntalk]

There is a big difference between photo 1 which was taken after the DNC convention and the other two.

In the case of signing a small flag its interesting to note that this is a tradition that goes way back in American history, and in fact at the Smithsonian there is a collection of American flags that were signed by American Presidents.

At a convention of the Armoured Division my Father was in there was on display an American Flag that had the names of all the men in that division who were killed in action who died for that flag. It was their division flag that stood in their headquarters and is now at Fort Knox.

The issue here is tossing flags on the ground and later tossing them into trash bags along with other trash as shown in YoungstownNewsandViews post and having a small flag signed by the President of the United States or a Presidential candidate.

I'm sure that the soldiers whose name was placed on the flag would not have been upset.

Would you consider it desecration for a soldier going into battle wearing an American flag on his sleve? I doubt it, you are too good a person to even consider going there.

At the Olympics, players wear an American flag patch as do many Police officers, and some would say that is wrong.

I'm sure that the persons who had their flags signed will treasure them and protect them, and not throw them into the nearest trash can.

[ForumManager]

This is the picture I was referring to
The one shown in the first post in this thread.

It seem the desecration of the flag is not limited to one party.

http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagetiq.html
scroll down for the references to the photos

[Elmo-Ytown]

A flag is an object which represents an idea, country, group, etc. If you don't care about that idea, country, or group, and it's values, then you don't care if you drop it's flag on the ground as your leaving. Those photos are disgusting. I've turned around and gone back on the freeway before to pick up the flag of the United States, whether it's in good shape, or torn tattered and ground into the mud. I do this because I believe in what it represents. A party that can leave our flag laying on the ground (by the thousands) without a second thought is not a party that should be running our country.

And the fact that they are in bags with all other kinds of garbage just makes me furious...

[ytowner]

I looked at the picture and see that each flag was rolled up neatly.  If they were being discarded why would someone take the time to do that?   

Why did the Democratic Delegates THROW Them on the ground!





Rolled Up Real Neat Ehhh!?

[Towntalk]

That's simple to answer. The DNC purchased more flags than they needed. 12,000 too many.

You don't unfurl all the flags at once, but take a bundle you are going to pass out and unfurl those.

Why were they not kept in their shipping boxes until they were needed?

At the places I worked at, they didn't take more products out of their cartons than they were going to put on display for sale. And the rest were placed in a secure place.

Even if those flags were handouts at the convention reasonable people would have (or should have) treated them the same way that a store would treat its merchandise.

Does a restraunt take all its food out of the shipping cartons before they need them? Certainly no. They put it in a safe place and open up only what they are going to use.

If they had kept the extras in the boxes they came in, and put them in a safe place, there would be no issue, but they didn't.

[ForumManager]

I looked at the picture and see that each flag was rolled up neatly.  If they were being discarded why would someone take the time to do that?   

[sfc_oliver]

     I have to agree with towntalk, We will probably never know why those flags were discarded nor by whom, but there is no doubt that they were. And it is still a disgrace.

[Towntalk]

With all due respect Mary the facts are simple:

1. The flags were in trash bags.
2. When the DNC received them, they were in boxes.
3. The boxes are nowhere to be seen in the photo.
4. The people who removed them from the stadium were not challenged.
5. The bags were near dumpsters. If the officials were saving them (a) they would have put them back in the boxes they came in, not trash bags, (b) they would have put them in a more secure place so that no one could walk off with them.

Certainly most Democrats are just as patriotic as Republicans, and lets assume that this was an oversight on the part of the folks assigned the task of taking care of them, that does not excuse their actions. You don't put 12,000 flags in trash bags and set them where they can be considered as trash, nor do you take all the flags out of their shipping boxes and toss the boxes away. You keep the flags in the boxes they came in and pass them out as needed from there.

"Democratic organizers have claimed that the flags were not meant to be thrown in the trash, but according to a Fox News report, McCain supporters claim the vendor found the bagged flags in and around garbage bins following the Democratic National Convention."

As I pointed out earlier, where were the security people at Invesco Field? Several people would have been needed to haul 84 trash bags full of flags out of the stadium and load them in the truck, and it would have taken some time to perform the task.  A security guard worth his salt would have stopped them and made a call to the DNC to find out if these people were authorized to take the flags, have gotten their names, and made entries in their security logs.

The simple fact that the flags left the building unchallanged speaks for itself.

Finally, since they were in trash bags in the area of the dumsters, the trash haulers could just as easily have assumed they were to be thrown away and threw them in their trucks. Most likely the dumsters were themselves full and its not unusual to place trash bags around them when there's no more room in the dumpsters.

The DNC had a lot of materials at Invesco Field that they wanted back, and that material was placed in a safe place, and that is where the flags should also have gone.

[Elmo-Ytown]

I don't think that they all got together and said, Hey! I've got a great idea! Lets through these American flags in the trash! I do however think that someone knew and determined that it was acceptable. Even if it was oversite, how can you overlook what is going to happen to twelve thousand flags?

[Mary]

Wow is everyone more then willing to just say DNC are not Patriots. It was a screw up it has nothing to do with how much any DNC member feels about this country. I would never believe that ANY member of the RNC or the DNC would ever throw out flags like that. It was an oversite. Someone was supposed to pick them up and forgot.

[Towntalk]

SECOND FOLLOWUP WITH QUESTIONS:

McCain camp uses 'discarded' Obama flags
From CNN Correspondent Mary Snow

COLORADO SPRINGS, CO (CNN)–Republicans kicked off a McCain/Palin rally in Colorado Springs with veterans handing out American flags they say were discarded after the Democratic National Convention in Denver.
Tom Kise –a spokesman for the McCain campaign in Colorado said a worker at Invesco field who wants to remain anonymous dropped off the flags to the McCain campaign this past week. He says there were 84 bags that amounted to roughly 12 thousand flags.
As thousands in the crowd waved flags, Senator McCain noticed them – saying "those flags look great" — but did not make direct mention of the flap.
Damon Jones, a spokesman for the Democratic Convention tells CNN "the story is false."
He says the flags were bundled together, placed in bags and intended to be distributed at Invesco. Jones says they "were removed without authorization".
Updated with DNC response
In response to the accusations, DNC spokeswoman Karren Finney released the following statement:
"American flags were proudly waved by the 75,000 people who joined Barack Obama at the Democratic Convention. John McCain should applaud that, but instead his supporters wrongfully took leftover bundles of our flags from the stadium to play a cheap political stunt calling into question our patriotism. On the same day he agrees to join Barack Obama at Ground Zero on September 11, John McCain attacks the patriotism of Obama supporters who so proudly waved the American flag at our historic event in Denver just days ago."

QUESTION:
HOW COULD SOMEONE WALK OUT OF INVESCO WITH 84 TRASH BAGS FULL OF FLAGS WITHOUT BEING STOPPED BY SECURITY PEOPLE?
HOW MANY PEOPLE WOULD IT TAKE TO TAKE 12,000 FLAGS OUT OF THE BUILDING, LOAD THEM IN A TRUCK AND TAKE OFF WITH THEM.
SEVERAL TRIPS IN AND OUT OF THE STADIUM WOULD HAVE BEEN NEEDED YET NO ONE SAW THEM? NO ONE ASK THEM WHAT THEY WERE UP TO, OR TRIED TO STOP THEM?
ANYONE WITH A LICK OF COMMON SENSE WOULD HAVE TO SAY THAT THE DEMOCRATIC RESPONSE IS SO MUCH HOG WASH.

[Towntalk]

My Father was a Sergent First Class in WWII in Europe and Korea in an Armoured Division  which explains my anger at this story.

As to the BSA ... in a number of cities including Philidelphia the Boy Scouts were ordered off public property by Democratic Officials, and in Congress, the Democrats attacked the Boy Scouts on the floor of the House of Representatives, but then they also attacked the Salvation Army because it wouldn't take their liberal stand on subjucts near and dear to the hearts and souls of liberals.

Why should I believe a word they say.?

[sfc_oliver]

Sorry Democrats I just do not believe your side of this story. Its a disgrace.

[Elmo-Ytown]

Interesting what you said, about Democrats hating the BSA, especially when you look at who delivered the flags to the McCain/Palin event... Makes you think about how the Democrats think about everything, they're only strong on being weak, on failing.... Just a thought.

Sounds to me like the Democrats are just trying to cover up for their mistake.

[Towntalk]

FOLLOWUP:

Damon Jones, spokesman for the Democratic National Convention Committee, released a statement claiming that McCain supporters swiped leftover bundles of flags from the stadium "to play out a cheap political stunt" calling into question Democrat patriotism.

Democratic organizers have claimed that the flags were not meant to be thrown in the trash, but according to a Fox News report, McCain supporters claim the vendor found the bagged flags in and around garbage bins following the Democratic National Convention.

A group of Boy Scouts brought 84 garbage bags full of the discarded flags to the site of a Republican rally in Colorado Springs today, where veterans distributed them throughout the assembled crowd. McCain supporters waved the recycled flags and chanted "U.S.A." as they welcomed John McCain and his running mate, Sarah Palin.