Democratic Party's Respect For The Flag

[Towntalk]

What is your source for the statement that the flags were "PAPER"?

Look again at the pictures and this time with your glasses on.

I watched both conventions via C-SPAN and the flags that the delegates were waving WERE definately cloth.

[peg_flora]

The other day in my office in Boardman, I recycled an old envelope with one of those u.s. flag stamps. Was I unpatriotic for doing so?

Sometimes we wear little american flag pins at work on our lapels, but the pins get bent after a while so we throw them away. Still unpatriotic even though we wear them with pride?

Face it people, the American flag has extended its use into many commercial categories and is in many cases only a commodity like paper clips, toothpicks, and other perishables like toilet paper.

I'm not saying whether that is good or bad, but when you have people making money off paper flags, plastic flags, american flag ties (which are usually ugly, not just insulting) and american flag underwear, the whole "every flag is sacred" arguement becomes much less convincing.

This moment will not define the democratic convention because it is a fringe news story which is carried on by fringe people who already have their minds made up about certain issues.

So there is a big difference in my mind in a beautiful flag flying at the capitol, or a cloth flag draped on a coffin, compared to those thousands of paper flags you show in those bags.


and so those paper flags got put in the dumpster. big deal.

Peggy F.

[sfc_oliver]

We can nitpick at this subject forever. Yes there were flags dropped on the floor at many different rallies by both parties. But only one appears to have deliberately discarded 12,000 American flags and made a feeble attempt (Translate lie) to explain what happened.

The Democratic convention of 2008 will be remembered for 12,000 flags.

[Towntalk]

That is precisely why the Independents are a real factor that both parties are courting. This group is fed up to the gills with both parties and their media pals.

[ForumManager]

I don't feel it is rude to characterize someone as being  left. I feel that many of us don't fit into left or right.  The parties were established long ago. Most people have  more access to information these days and develop their own opinion on individual issues.  There are even disagreements within the parties themselves. I feel the political parties are throwbacks to an earlier age.

[Towntalk]

Forum Manager:

You just made a very good point and a tip of the hat to you.

This campaign has been running way too long ... way too long indeed ... and to be perfectly honest about it ... I'm burned out.

Every one of the candidates are spouting the same sound bites that they spouted during the very first debate, now they are resorting to mud slinging.

In past Presidential campaigns I made a point of including the polls, but not this time around, they are all worthless so far as the voters are concerned. They give the media something to flap their gums about but they do not tell us exactly what the candidates will commit themselves to.

As a voter, I want the bottom line specifics from their mouths, not the media, and certainly not their flunkies. "Change" simply will not cut it.

Its reached the point where I have no intentions watching the next three debates not will I pay attention to any of the polls that will follow them. The only poll that will have any real meaning will be the poll take three days before November 4th.

[ytowner]

Well my friend, perhaps I am rudely characterizing you as one on the left, and I base that very claim from your posts on here.

About the financing.. Well Obama could have $84 million in public financing, but o wait, he decided to go against his pledge so he could raise millions more. And o btw, his financial lead is very slim.

[ForumManager]

And Ytownnewsandviews... frankly it irritates  me that you make cheap shots about "my friends  on the left."  I own this forum and have told you that you are welcome to post to the right and to advertise your radio pods."

It also bothers me that the actions of a  bunch of partiers many who have been drinking. on both sides of the political fence come under this scrutiny.

Here's a thought...
Outlaw all campaigning
EVERYWHERE
Do not allow ANY campaign contributions. This will remove much special interest innuendo.

In this day and age of "mass media" the following could be done:
All candidates are given lists of issues  and are given air time to say what they will do about the issues. Another candidate's name or their position will be completely off limits  under any circumstances. No commercials will be allowed.  All are given the SAME issues and the same amount of time to speak. These opinions would then be published in all mass media IE a special TV network with a schedule available, a special radio network with a schedule available,  websites, newspaper public notices.  As new questions come up they are given more opportunities to address them.

Public debates could be held WEEKLY and televised on all networks.
The congressman, senators and presidential incumbents, would be REQUIRED to STAY in Washington and governors and other public servants in their home locales and the debates could be done via satellite so no one is ignoring their present duties.

No money is spent on WASTEFUL raucous parties and there will be an  even playing field for everyone.

The parties' candidates would be chosen by public voting, and the winners of each primary would continue to debate WEEKLY.

or maybe  let's eliminate that party voting thing altogether too.

Vote on everyone... highest votes wins, second place vice president.

Our current modus operandi was established in the horse and buggy days.

How's that for left? ... or maybe it is right .. . being moral and for the majority.

[Towntalk]

I would be just as up in arms, but moreso since W has always made a big deal about patriotism. And who was it that slammed Obama for not wearing a flag pin?

By the way, if you go to American Memories at the Library of Congress web site you can find numerous cases where the Government used the American Flag for advertizing purposes for the WPA etc.

Under the law you cited, the government itself would be in violation of that law.

I certainly didn't mean to imply that any political party has a lock on patriotism, for they certainly don't.

[ForumManager]

The law i cited is the same law that you are up in arms about.
Read the entire thing.
You can't have it both ways

It should be noted that the Supreme Court has ruled that desacration of the American Flag is "freedom of Speech" so if the law you cited were to go to the high court, it would be struck down as a violation of the First Amendment.

[ForumManager]

2004 convention photo
http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/11/01/national/01campaign_slide8.184.jpg
Apparently this was before it was politically incorrect to trash the flag?

[Towntalk]

It should be noted that the Supreme Court has ruled that desacration of the American Flag is "freedom of Speech" so if the law you cited were to go to the high court, it would be struck down as a violation of the First Amendment.

In looking back at past campaigns going back as far at they go, campaigns have used the flag in their ads and posters. Abraham Lincoln for example had a flag with his name and his Vice President's name on it.

[ForumManager]

Sorry, but  you  only showed few trash bags... and how does anyone  know that those flags were not left on CHAIRS and then put into trash bags by the cleanup crew?

The others in the first photo were rolled up neatly and since they were not directly touching the floor that method of storage might be acceptable.  The EXTRAS were placed against the WALL in an UPRIGHT  position as thought someone intended  to keep them off of the floor. That area does not appear to be a trash receptacle area. The bags may have also been closed until someone decided to open them up for photos.

I often use trash bags to transport and PROTECT things.
Can you ever get ANYTHING back into its original box these days?

Tell your friends on the left to read up on flag etiquette.

I posted a link to page about flag etiquette
here is another:
http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagcode.htm
which is the FLAG CODE

§3. Use of flag for advertising purposes; mutilation of flag

Any person who, within the District of Columbia, in any manner, for exhibition or display, shall place or cause to be placed any word, figure, mark, picture, design, drawing, or any advertisement of any nature upon any flag, standard, colors, or ensign of the United States of America; or shall expose or cause to be exposed to public view any such flag, standard, colors, or ensign upon which shall have been printed, painted, or otherwise placed, or to which shall be attached, appended, affixed, or annexed any word, figure, mark, picture, design, or drawing, or any advertisement of any nature; or who, within the District of Columbia, shall manufacture, sell, expose for sale, or to public view, or give away or have in possession for sale, or to be given away or for use for any purpose, any article or substance being an article of merchandise, or a receptacle for merchandise or article or thing for carrying or transporting merchandise, upon which shall have been printed, painted, attached, or otherwise placed a representation of any such flag, standard, colors, or ensign, to advertise, call attention to, decorate, mark, or distinguish the article or substance on which so placed shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and shall be punished by a fine not exceeding $100 or by imprisonment for not more than thirty days, or both, in the discretion of the court. The words "flag, standard, colors, or ensign", as used herein, shall include any flag, standard, colors, ensign, or any picture or representation of either, or of any part or parts of either, made of any substance or represented on any substance, of any size evidently purporting to be either of said flag, standard, colors, or ensign of the United States of America or a picture or a representation of either, upon which shall be shown the colors, the stars and the stripes, in any number of either thereof, or of any part or parts of either, by which the average person seeing the same without deliberation may believe the same to represent the flag, colors, standard, or ensign of the United States of America.

[ytowner]

Flag etiquette should be followed across the board.

The Republican convention cleanup videos appear to have flags on the floor as well but they are hard to make out amongst all the trash so I didn't post them.

There may have been a few flags at the GOP Convention, but not 12,000! Tell your friends on the left to read up on flag etiquette.

[ForumManager]

Flag etiquette should be followed across the board.

The Republican convention cleanup videos appear to have flags on the floor as well but they are hard to make out amongst all the trash so I didn't post them.