Dump The Pump Day - Thursday, June 16

[Youngstownshrimp]

ARE THE TRIKES MODERN DAY RICKSHAWS?

They are economical and more green than they can get right now. I believe all productive people are green, they are just not hypocrites and wish one day that we develop over-unity.

[iwasthere]

ARE THE TRIKES MODERN DAY RICKSHAWS?

[Youngstownshrimp]

I think you have it Westsider.  I have an advantage over what is normal here, growing up in Asia, public transportation is provided by private concerns and most utilize it, there really is no need for a car, my parents sold our car after a year , because public transportation more than handled our needs.  Funny, my brother who is about to retire as a Boeing engineer, recently invested in several passenger light trucks and Trikes as shown below.

[northside lurker]

I don't think toll roads charge by number of passengers. The tickets the turnpike uses have vehicle classes and prices but no mention of occupants.

I wasn't talking about toll roads in my previous reply.

[Why?Town]

I don't think toll roads charge by number of passengers. The tickets the turnpike uses have vehicle classes and prices but no mention of occupants.

[northside lurker]

The public roads are in place for the benefit of every vehicle, private or otherwise. They give equal access to all and therefore cannot possibly benefit one over the other. It's basically a level playing field regarding roads.



But I do have to ask, stacked towards private personaly transportation vs. what?

Vs. mass transit.

You're only talking about cars and buses.  How do trains, and trolleys (or any vehicle that doesn't travel on rubber tires) benefit from roads?

But let's look at cars and buses.  Let's say that every person, through property taxes, contributes 5 cents per mile for roads. (this is a theoretical number.  I don't know what the real number is.)  A car with one person driving one mile contributes 5 cents to travel that mile.  But, a bus with 30 passengers contributed $1.50 to travel that same mile.  Why do the 30 people riding the bus have to pay 30x more for the same service as the person in the car?  That's not equal.

[Why?Town]

the message I'm trying to get across is that the transportation playing field is already heavily stacked in favor of private personal transportation, because roads are also subsidized.

The public roads are in place for the benefit of every vehicle, private or otherwise. They give equal access to all and therefore cannot possibly benefit one over the other. It's basically a level playing field regarding roads.



But I do have to ask, stacked towards private personaly transportation vs. what?

[northside lurker]

Westside, good you are debating rationally.  The message I am trying to get across from my initial post is that mass transit will work economically and efficiently if the free market runs it.  In addition, the WRTA without any denial is very expensive to operate under a public sector entity, as they say government can't run anything sufficiently.  Let the free market in on an even level, and mass transit will become a competitive industry.

I don't disagree.  But, the message I'm trying to get across is that the transportation playing field is already heavily stacked in favor of private personal transportation, because roads are also subsidized.

For example, if every highway was a toll road, where the tolls truly covered the full cost of building, maintaining, and patrolling, don't you think more people would weigh the cost and decide that it might be cheaper to take privately owned public transportation--where the cost of those same tolls are divided between all the passengers--instead of driving their own car? (or even a complete alternative, like a privately owned train)

http://subsidyscope.org/transportation/highways/funding/
http://dc.streetsblog.org/2011/01/04/actually-highway-builders-roads-don%E2%80%99t-pay-for-themselves/
http://amconmag.com/article/2010/aug/01/00023/

[jay]

A Dump The Pump Day Logo

[Towntalk]

Greyhound Lines

Everything you want to know about Greyhound and a lot more that you could care less about knowing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greyhound_Lines#Notable_Incidents_and_Accidents

[jay]

Greyhound and Mega Bus

I realize they travel from city to city.  Do they operate without any public support?

[Youngstownshrimp]

Westside, good you are debating rationally.  The message I am trying to get across from my initial post is that mass transit will work economically and efficiently if the free market runs it.  In addition, the WRTA without any denial is very expensive to operate under a public sector entity, as they say government can't run anything sufficiently.  Let the free market in on an even level, and mass transit will become a competitive industry.

[northside lurker]

The state is 8 billion in the hole,

I can't back this up with a source, so take it for what it's worth.  But, I've been told, by someone I consider a reliable source, that the states budget and ODOT's budget are not connected.  So, the state's $8B deficit has no effect on ODOT's budget.

Please get educated, read the book, "Internal Combustion,"  it is the history of transportation.  Mass transits were always subsidized to a degree, it just has become more subsidized when private companies vanished.

I may read the book.  However, you are making the claim that mass-transit was always subsidized to some degree.  So, it is up to you to explain how.  (anyway, weren't you the one who brought up the electric trolley system that was completely private and unsubsidized? )

[Towntalk]

Westsider: You're welcome, I'm sure.

Youngstownshrimp: Since the city regulated mass transet (rights-of-way; fares) right from the first horse-drawn street car that went up and down Federal Street, local government had its fingers in the industry, but the same can be said for taxi services and to an extent railroads. Even today Taxi companies have to go to City Council to get fare increases, and their meters are inspected by the city.

[Youngstownshrimp]

ODOT doesn't seem to have too much trouble finding hundreds of millions of dollars to add extra lanes, build bridges, etc. every year.  The state is 8 billion in the hole, the feds print money. why do you think gas is approaching $5 , it is because the Arabs no longer value the greenback.

How was mass transit always subsidized?   Please get educated, read the book, "Internal Combustion,"  it is the history of transportation.  Mass transits were always subsidized to a degree, it just has become more subsidized when private companies vanished.