Single-Payer Health Care Is The Only Right Answer For Ohio

[connie254]

I never said you never earned it. But when you say vets pay on a sliding scale based on their income, who pays for the balance? Where does the Veterans Administration get their money?
What exactly in the bill is causing your doctor to retire?
I understand your anger about being promised lifetime health care. Maybe someone should have told you not to expect anyone to take of you, you must take care of yourself. My father told me that, and he fought in WWII in Africa, Italy and Germany.
I work full time since I was done with school and will continue to work until I am old enough to retire. I have money saved for my retirement and don't expect to live off the government or any pension plan. Nice that you think that I don't.

[sfc_oliver]

I'm sorry Connie but you have a problem. Veterans have earned their health care benefits. What little they actually have. And they pay for what they get depending upon their income. Unless they are Retired military as i am, in which case we were promised Free health care for life, and that was taken away from us by our beloved congress.

Also, most of us have paid into the medicare system our entire adult lives, and Medicare isn't free even then you still pay a premium for Medicare.

I have spoken with several Medical professionals, and haven't found one yet that thinks this new health care bill is a good thing. Fact is I may have to find a new family Doctor as mine may retire early because of it.

At any rate, you are wrong. You and Joe Shmoe can go out and earn your way like the majority of us have.

Obamacare.....We can't afford it.

[connie254]

How many of you that disagree with the health care bill work in the health field? How many ask anyone in the health care field what really goes on?
I'm tired of those people that are on Medicare/ Veteran's insurance/ and any other insurance plan that is paid for and run by the federal government to keep THEIR plan going but don't let Joe Shmoe get the same thing.
Let me tell you-Medicare is a government run health care system. The physicians must get tests approved for you. Most of the time, they know what tests will and won't get approved(ditto for hospitals, clinics, etc) and don't mention the tests if they know what will not be approved and you will have to pay out of pocket. Medicaid is the same. Veterans can be admitted to the local hospital but if a bed opens up in a veterans' hospital, and the closest one is Wade Park near Cleveland, and you don't go, unless you have other insurance, you must go. You pay out of pocket if you don't. All the "free" care is paid by someone and right now that is the taxpayer. The people working are paying for you, you paid for the previous generation, and that is why Medicare will probably not be there when I am ready for it. There will not be enough taxpayers to cary all of the baby boomers, the next generation and the people on Medicaid.
I agree about "fit" people on Medicaid-make them work to do whatever they can. My son will be working in the county MCBBD workshops for his paycheck and cover what he can for his Medicaid. If he can do it, with MR, then so can other people.
It's the "self-pay" people-those who don't want insurance or can't afford it that is drowning the system.
They get HCAP and other things to help with the bill but guess what? Who pays for that reduction? The taxpayer because HCAP is a govt supported system to help hospitals and clinics get some money to help these people and the hospitals eat the rest of the cost. But they must make up the money somehow to stay open-guess who pays?

[Rick Rowlands]

I give up! Its not worth it.

[irishbobcat]

Ricky's solution is that ALL AMERICANS PAY HIGH HEALTH INSURANCE RATES THROUGH THE NOSE!!!!!!

[Rick Rowlands]

Allan,

I already gave my ideas.  Re-read my last post again, did you miss the last sentence in the third paragraph? Could be a possible solution.

My comparison between pre existing conditions and floods has nothing to do with people dying.  The comparison was addressing the notion of purchasing an insurance policy AFTER THE INSURABLE EVENT HAS ALREADY TAKEN PLACE! In that case it is not insurance you are buying, you are defrauding the system and perverting the very meaning of what insurance is.

"Insurance involves pooling funds from many insured entities (known as exposures) in order to pay for relatively uncommon but severely devastating losses which can occur to these entities. The insured entities are therefore protected from risk for a fee, with the fee being dependent upon the frequency and severity of the event occurring."  That is a basic definition for insurance.  Now how can covering pre existing conditions possibly work in a standard insurance model?  The fee would necessarily have to rise on all members of the pool to do that. 

[AllanY2525]

OK Rick,

What is your solution to providing health care to those who are already ill? 

Let them just get sick and die?

Survival of the fittest and to hell with anyone else?

Your comparison regarding health insurance for pre-existing conditions to that of a
flooded basement is erroneous - flooded basements don't cause people to die,  whereas
having a serious illness and being unable to get treatment can and does cause people to die.

Let's hear some of your  ideas on a solution....

[Rick Rowlands]

Insurance is the reason that you don't know what the cost of routine services are.  Competition has not worked because it is absent from health care!  You don't care what the cost of a medical procedure is, all you care about is "what is my co-pay" or "what is my deductible?"  Why should you care if the procedure costs $2,000 or $3,000 if you only have to worry about a $300 deductible? You are more than willing to let the insurer pay that extra $1,000.  Why should you care, doesn't cost you anything.

Your argument that we cannot do without health care doesn't really make sense, since we cannot do without housing, cannot do without food, and cannot do without clothing. Yet there is plenty of competition in the marketplace for those products.  Why is that?  Well you buy those items directly. You the consumer, buys directly from the retailer without some third party acting as an intermediary.  You haggle on price and you get the best deal.  Really, think about it and you will see that it is the perversion of health insurance from something meant to cover catastrophic illness to something that covers everything has caused 90% of the problems with health care.   

Oh, and health insurance for pre existing conditions... Please, that is the same thing as buying flood insurance after your basement has six feet of water in it!  The entitlement mentality has reached new lows when people think that pre existing medical conditions should be covered and at the same price as those who are healthy!  With a pre existing condition, it would be foolish for an insurer to issue a policy since there is a 100% chance that the insurer will have to pay out on that policy.   That is not how real insurance works, but that is not what is being sought.  These people are not looking for real insurance, they are looking for someone else to pay their bills!  But there are solutions in that, high risk pools, perhaps subsidized by state governments, can step in and handle those people.

The only real solution to this problem is abolition of health insurance with exception of catastrophic coverage.  It is the only "sustainable" solution.

[AllanY2525]

I think someone should try to figure out why medical costs are skyrocketing, and find ways to reduce
the costs to the point where everyday Americans can somewhat afford them.  Free market competition
has done little to nothing to bring down the costs associated with health care - the hospitals, the doctors
and the insurance companies have no need to compete for our business because they all know that we
cannot do without health care.

It's not like buying a toaster oven at Walmart versus Target, etc.  When was the last time you scheduled
a routine surgery (ie: non life threatening) and were able to get an estimate of the real cost ahead of time?

You don't.  Most people have no idea what the bill for a hospital stay will be, until they actually receive it.
There are all kinds of charges for this and that, etc.  The big insurance companies are making billions of
dollars, and wasting a lot of our insurance premiums on administrator salaries, etc. 

Somehow, we must figure out a way to bring down the cost of medical insurance - not necessarily
through a "single-payer" system, but somehow.  I do agree that insurance coverage should not be denied
to those with pre-existing conditions - but I cannot say that I am in favor of a single-payer system that
is designed like the current system.

[Rick Rowlands]

In my world health care would be priced so that it was within the reach of everyone. Those prices would be the result of competition in the marketplace. But lets face it not all health care services would be affordable to everyone.  Certainly a doctors visit, getting a bone set, getting X rays and most tests should be priced cheap enough where any one of us could pay out of pocket. (doctors and labs would compete for customers just as every other industry does)  But other services such as surgeries, transplants, cancer treatment etc. would be much more expensive as they require more specialized facilities and doctors.  Certainly there would be a place for insurance policies to insure against those catastrophic illnesses. (wait a minute, I just described our health care system prior to government meddling.  Go figure!)  The system we have now is not insurance.  Insurance only works when the thing you are insuring against is a rare event.  Fire, flood, car accidents, etc. are rare events and happen infrequently enough that the insurance companies have a chance to pool several policyholders' premiums together to pay for each big claim.  Nobody buys health insurance hoping they will never need it.  Everyone knows they will need it, so its really just a prepayment plan.  Its more like enrolling in the budget program for you gas bill, where you pay $50.00 per month all year long instead of paying $5.00 in the summer and $500.00/mo. in the winter for gas. All health insurance does is provide you with a budget plan for a service that you know you'll need. 

What Dennis is proposing with single payer health care (a misnomer, its actually taxpayer healthcare) is the same as saying we should have single payer fuel.  No gas bills, no electric bills, nothing.  Its all free. Just pull up to the gas station and fill up and magically someone else pays the bill.  Of course that someone else would be the government, who would force those 53% who pay taxes to foot the bill.  At one time that statement would have been recognized as an absurdity.  But more and more I am finding that a growing number of people in this country feel that they are owed something from someone else, and really do not have any respect for the property of others.  I see it in many of the posts on this forum. What ever happened to having a basic respect for your fellow citizens?  Whatever happened to respecting their hard work and the rewards that come from that work?  No respect, just take take take.  I want blah blah, and since Joe Schmo next door has a better job than me I will have my government take from him to give me the blah blah that I want.  This thinking is not American, its a perversion of the ideals that propelled this country to become the land of plenty that it is.  If you want and need your blah blah, you should either work harder and make the money needed to buy it for yourself or do without it.  Yes I know that you may think this is appalling, but you really have no moral or ethical right to the fruits of your neighbors' labor.

[iwasthere]

How about banning all health insurance and making citizens pay for the services they receive?  Is that not the "true" single payer system?

rr aslong it is affordable for all ohioans.

[Rick Rowlands]

How about banning all health insurance and making citizens pay for the services they receive?  Is that not the "true" single payer system? 

[irishbobcat]

Single-Payer Health Care Is The Only Right Answer For Ohio

The only real solution to the health care crisis is the single-payer plan, which covers every American regardless of income, age, or prior medical condition. Under single-payer, physicians and patients make decisions about medical care, not government or corporate bureaucracies, and everyone can choose his or her own health care provider.

As GAO and Congressional Budget Office studies have shown in the past, single-payer will save billions in health care spending, because it eliminates the administrative costs, waste, and high CEO salaries of for-profit health insurance.

Single-payer could be Congress' gift to working people and businesses alike. Single-payer will boost the economy by relieving businesses large and small of the costly burden of providing health benefits.

That's why I support the Health Care for All Ohioans Act. We need to bring cost-cutting and affordable single-payer health care to Ohio!