Downtown Fight

[Rick Rowlands]

And you assume that because a (conservative) court upheld bar owner liability that I would naturally support that?   Sorry, but I cannot as that places more responsibility on a bar owner and removes responsibility from patrons. 

[Towntalk]

Rusty is right.

Don't know if you recall, but an Oak Street bar was shut down by the city and the owners held responsable a number of years ago.

There was also a Glenwood night club that was also closed by the city.

Both were major problem spots.

[Rick Rowlands]

No the owner is not solely responsible.  The owner of the bar and the fighters are equally competent people, capable of making decisions and bearing consequences of their actions.  If the owner is violating the fire code then he should be cited.  If he is serving alcohol to minors then revoke his liquor license. Once a patron leaves his premises the bar owner does not and cannot control their actions. 

Your argument presumes two different class of people, the "all seeing all knowing business owner" and the "poor innocent blameless victim".  The all seeing business owner has to not only anticipate that rowdy behavior will happen on his property but must take all precautions to prevent it, including possibilities that are yet unknown.  The poor innocent victim on the other hand has no responsibility and is just reacting to stimuli. Our society however say that we are all equal, yet this double standard of responsibility persists and is perpetuated.

[jay]

Someone (I hope the city) should install a video camera to record what goes on around this club.  If this situation is not brought under control, other business will be affected as sensible people choose to party elsewhere.   We do not need a violent incident.  Remember what happened at the Italian Festival years ago and how it affected the downtown.

[Rick Rowlands]

Its interesting how you asked that question and left out the parties that are truly responsible, the fighters!  Why overlook those who are responsible and instead try to shift responsibility to others?   

[Lynds]

I might get reamed for this but where do you think the majority of the responsibility lies? with the City or with the business owner? I have heard a few complaints about that particular place also and besides warning the owner over and over I'm not sure what to do. His business isn't being effected by the constent fighting, so why would he want to invest in more bouncers or security. The City on the other hand looks terrable when situations like this occur.

[jay]

If the bar in question is the problem, it should be closed.

I've also heard that the YPD used to have a cruiser parked near this area in the past.

[rusty river]

I witnessed a fight in that same area one night about a month ago. It took the police about 5-7 minutes to respond, and when they did, it was 4 cruisers.

Jay, the police on duty are not sitting at the station waiting for calls. They are out patrolling. Given the fact that the call was for a large fight fueled by alcohol, the safety of our police officers must be considered. How effective would the lone downtown patrolman be in a potentially mob-like situation?

In any case, I'm willing to bet that the fight started at Downtown 36, as it has on many occasions in the past. Ever since the Cell was shut down, the troublemakers have migrated to Downtown 36. Add to the fact that they allow a dangerous amount of people to cram in at once and serve alcohol to minors, it's only a matter of time before something really terrible happens.

[jay]

I've heard there was a huge fight on West Federal Street near Phelps at about 2:00 a.m. on Saturday morning.  As the fight ensued, a front window of Denny's Baskets was broken and glass fell all over the sidewalk.  Although the police were called, it is said that they took a long time to arrive. (The police station is one block away)