Ytown-Pitt-Cleve Rail Travel

[sfc_oliver]

As I have pointed out, we are not polluting as we have in the past but are cleaning most things up already, and That is just not good enough for some.

Just compare our own Mahoning river from 1950 to today.

[Rick Rowlands]

Dennis, what would you have done if you had been here in 1920 when every house had a coal furnace, the mills burning trainloads of coal every day, 200 steam locomotives running around the valley, steam tractors plowing the fields, etc. etc.   Now we have a few coal burning power plants which utilize tens of million of dollars worth of scrubbers and pollution control equipment and you ignorantly try to convince people that coal burning is a threat.  Humans managed to live through the heyday of coal burning!

[irishbobcat]

you work 16 tons and what do you get, another day older and deeper in debt....

I owe my soul, black lungs, sick children, to the coal store and company...

[Towntalk]

And babies are being murdered every day right here in America with the blessings of the pro-abortionists.

[Why?Town]

Kinda like cats.

When my mom's cat died my dad found out that she had been spending something like $50 a month on it for thyroid medicine for several years. He responded...What the hell'd you do that for we could have gotten a new cat for free!!!

disclaimer:the above was BASED on a true story, but not exactly accurate

[Rick Rowlands]

Children are being made every day! 

[irishbobcat]

Keeping coal mines open instead of going to renewable alternative energies will just keep killing children.......I guess conservatives see nothing wrong with that....

[Rick Rowlands]

Dennis also thinks that shutting down coal mines is going to increase employment and standards of living in the 6th congressional district.

[Towntalk]

I suspect Dennis would disagree with you about the "Wicks, Tods, Pollocks, Bonnels, Fords, and other conservative families who took the risks and built the plants here that employed hundreds of thousands and raised the standard of living of everyone during the 20th century."

You left out Chauncey Andrews who was a coal, steel and railroad barron whose family bequethed the land where Ursuline is now located, and whose wealth and influence surpassed the above mentioned families. He rose from humble beginnings to become one of the richest men in Ohio.

[Rick Rowlands]

Also, we could go into the reasons for the closure of the Youngstown district plants, but the writing was on the wall for this district well before free trade was even a possibility.  As far back as the 1920s steelmakers knew that the inland plants were at a significant disadvantage.  Freight rates to ship all materials by rail were high. At least most other districts could count on one material coming in by water, in Youngstown everything came by rail.  Also, the centers of steel consumption continued to move westward, making eastern plants more expensive to buy from than western plants.  This was in part due to the "Pittsburgh Plus" cost basing system.

The answer to these problems was to build new plants in the Chicago area, and most major steelmakers did.  YS&T purchased the Steel and Tubes Co. of America in 1923 and created the Indiana Harbor Works.  Republic Steel had a small plant in East Chicago, and of course US Steel had the massive Gary Works and the South Works. 

So in a situation in which steel consumption is moving westward and the costs of shipment of raw materials are high, the inland plants n Youngstown were extremely disadvantaged.  Come the great depression and most of our plants closed. Then WWII brought everything back to life and then after the war the Marshall plan and the postwar prosperity of the 1950s-60s created a situation in which our production was needed, regardless of the cost disadvantage.  By this time steel consumption began to fall off and other materials began to replace some steel products.  The leaders of the steel companies began to cut back on modernization of the inland plants and they became more marginal.  Then the environmental protection act was passed, and those marginal plants which could just eek by were now being forced to install pollution control equipment.  The companies, already weakened by the economy of the 1970s coundn't justify those expenses and therefore decided to shut down the inland plants.  The dumping of foreign steel certain exacerbated the problems, but were in no way the sole cause.  The major cause of the retreat of steel from the Youngstown district was geography, plain and simple. 

You should thank conservatives for bringing steel to Youngstown in the first place, and giving our valley 80 years of prosperity.  I've NEVER heard anyone say thanks to the Wicks, Tods, Pollocks, Bonnels, Fords, and other conservative families who took the risks and built the plants here that employed hundreds of thousands and raised the standard of living of everyone during the 20th century.

[Rick Rowlands]

Well thank you rusty.  I am honored that I would be the last conservative allowed to remain in the Mahoning Valley!

You know, You'll probably have to ship Jimbo and McKelvey out too.  They are sounding more and more conservative every day!

[rusty river]

And what led to the Valley being taken over by liberals? The closings of the steel mills, loss of manufacturing, and massive layoffs. What caused these things to happen? Free trade.

Well done conservatives, well done.

At least Rick is trying to make up for it. I can't think of many (any) Valley conservatives who are passionately giving of their time, money, and energy for the sake of culture, community, and historic preservation. I give him kudos. In fact, when these high-speed rails are up and running and I've started shipping out all the conservatives, Rick can stay. 

[sfc_oliver]

Hmm, it was while i was gone in the military for so long that the valley was taken over by the Liberals and went downhill. I think I'll hang around. See what I can help make better.

[rusty river]

 

[Rick Rowlands]

So much for the so called liberal respect for all viewpoints.  Rusty River either wants to shut us up or ship us out.