Salvation Army Building - another photo

[Frank Bellamy, MAP Masters of Applied Politics]

My services are "For Hire"...
Sir, I do have some great ideas in your subject area. However, my business is supplying Consulting Services and I don't think it would be fair to me to give them away for free.
   

[AllanY2525]

Allan;

I must say with all respect to you and the members of this respected posting board that;

'The statement that you just made is very short sighted, uneducated and a bit due-fuss...Our country's economy is in big trouble and this ailment alone will cause a readjustment in our present American life style, business and personal geographic location for living and commerce.

Our aim as a city and a country should be to hold on to and preserve any physical assent we now have.  To justify the demolishing of a sound structure as you have done...citing the 2010 Plan as reason is down right goofy.

I know that you and some others may not understand my direction here, but try to think beyond the present appearance of things.

The people in the suburbs will have to return to Youngstown to live and do business...there is no other cost effective options remaining....But if you don't get it...Its still O.K.

Bellamy,

Until everyone living elsewhere in the United States decides to make a "Gold Rush" to
move into the City Of Youngstown, could you please tell us "short-sighted", "un-educated", "due-fuss" [ I believe
the correct spelling is actually "dufus"] folks here on the board what YOUR  more-educated, polically savvy,
demographically correct and financially "wiser than us" solution is?   

Please "put your money where your mouth is"  in your next response - ie: cite actual
facts and figures - from reputable sources, that would explain to all of us here:

1) Where will the money come from to: 

    a) Conserve AND preserve these vacant structures, INDEFINITELY, at the city's
        expense, until people and/or business move back into the area,  and buy
        these structures and invest their own financial resources into restoring,
        updating, and maintaining them - as well as paying the property taxes
        on them and keeping the public utility services on inside them to prevent
        further decay.

    b) Provide 24-hour a day, 7-days a week security services to monitor and
       protect said vacant structures from vandalism, etc.

The entire Mahoning Valley has lost SO much of its former population over the
past 30 or so years that there are not enough people IN the immeidate suburbs
to bring the city back to what it once was (in terms of population size AND the
amount of tax revenues to support it)

I think it is YOU who just doesn't "get it" when it comes to the most realistic,
cost effective option available to the city  - given it's current population, tax-paying
base [ie: incoming revenue] and cost of maintaining the infrastructre that is already
here.

The term "built environment" doesn't just refer to the existing the buildings and
houses themselves, it also includes the public streets and sidewalk that GET you
to these buildings and the cost of paving and maintaining them.  it also includes
the cost of providing gas lines, water lines, electric lines, sewer and sanitation
lines, etc - to each and every one of these vacant structures. 

The city (and county, for that matter) simply do not have  the
resources to maintain an infrastructure that was designed to accomodate up to
250,000 people (source: 1950 City Plan) - all on the budget of a population of
82,00 or so people (far fewer of whom are employed, or receiving pay and benefits
sufficient for today's cost of living.)

[Frank Bellamy, MAP Masters of Applied Politics]

To rusty river;

You are very correct!  I should not send out "Mixed Messages" to voters...Just sometimes it irks me when people view the world and situations with horse blinders on.

Thank you for keeping me on point!

Vote B E L L A M Y '2008 for County Commissioner
"The suburbs should not be obligated to rescue the city"

[yfdgricker]

Everyone choose their next posts very carefully. I don't want to have to ban anyone because a verbal fight breaks out and I don't think ForumManager and Jay do either. Keep it civilized.

[rusty river]

I know that you and some others may not understand my direction here, but try to think beyond the present appearance of things.

The people in the suburbs will have to return to Youngstown to live and do business...there is no other cost effective options remaining....But if you don't get it...Its still O.K.

You went from protecting the city, to protecting the suburbs from the city, and now you're advocating the movement of people from the suburbs back to the city. Maybe that is why people don't understand your direction, because it changes so frequently. Just saying...

[Frank Bellamy, MAP Masters of Applied Politics]

Allan;

I must say with all respect to you and the members of this respected posting board that;

The statement that you just made is very short sighted, uneducated and a bit due-fuss...Our country's economy is in big trouble and this ailment alone will cause a readjustment in our present American life style, business and personal geographic location for living and commerce.

Our aim as a city and a country should be to hold on to and preserve any physical assent we now have.  To justify the demolishing of a sound structure as you have done...citing the 2010 Plan as reason is down right goofy.

I know that you and some others may not understand my direction here, but try to think beyond the present appearance of things.

The people in the suburbs will have to return to Youngstown to live and do business...there is no other cost effective options remaining....But if you don't get it...Its still O.K.

[AllanY2525]

Several people have already made some very good points re: the Salvation Army
Building.  No one else wanted it.  No one was going to fix it or do anything with it.
It had no real "historic value".

Rick made a good point also: It will be good to have a direct view of the B&O Station
coming down Mahoning Avenue.

The cost of replacing the old structure with something similar (not identical, as I am
sure the building codes have changed considerably since the original was built) would
run into the several MILLION dollar range, given the size of the structure and the
materials, etc.

Youngstown still has way, way WAYYYYY too many un-needed buildings, many of which
will just have to go.  None of us likes to see the city tear down a building that is still
structurally sound, but it has to happen in order for Youngstown to move forward with
the 2010 plan.

[northside lurker]

Jay do you know;
Who is paying for this massive and avoidable Demo Project?

I believe we, the taxpayers, are paying for the demolition.  I'm not sure what it is costing.

I think it was rude of me to answer when you were asked directly earlier, and I apologize.

You are right, I guess, that the taxpayers are paying for it.  WRTA "commissioned" this demolition.

They may have gotten a small amount of money from the city. (like a facade improvement grant, but I don't know for sure)  But, most of the money the WRTA is using to pay for this probably comes from capital improvement grants from the government.

Question for our members involved with construction or architecture

What would it cost today to construct a new six story concrete reinforced building? 

I couldn't tell you how much it would cost to build a new building equal to the Salvation Army building. (I can ask those more knowledgeable about that tomorrow)  But, that doesn't matter in this case.  No one else wanted the building.  The Salvation Army let the building deteriorate and become an eyesore.  And, the WRTA has a use planned for the land the building currently occupies.

As a side note, I realize I'm making very similar arguments against the Salvation Army building as those who want to see the (my beloved) Paramount theater demolished.  The only differences, as I see them, are that the Salvation Army building has much less architectural merit and less history. (Only the street facade had any architectural character, and age alone does not equal historic.)

[jay]

Question for our members involved with construction or architecture

What would it cost today to construct a new six story concrete reinforced building? 

[jay]

Jay do you know;
Who is paying for this massive and avoidable Demo Project?

I believe we, the taxpayers, are paying for the demolition.  I'm not sure what it is costing.

[Towntalk]

That building is (was) at least 100 years old. I have a photo of it in my library that was taken of the flood of 1913.

[Mary]

Not to mention that our population is still shrinking. Not all buildings/houses can be saved no matter how much any of us would like to.

[northside lurker]

The WRTA bought the building from the Salvation Army.  If the SA had taken better care of it, maybe someone else would have bought the building to reuse.

[Frank Bellamy, MAP Masters of Applied Politics]

Jay do you know;
Who is paying for this massive and avoidable Demo Project?

[jay]

A recent photo of the demolition of the Salvation Army building