A New Downtown Youngstown

[Towntalk]

When YSU was talking about expanding north the folks in my neighborhood were all excited about it because it would help the homeowners here, and they went all out to spruce up their lots and homes. All are long time home owners. Needless to say, when YSU opted for Smokey Hollow, we were all let down.

I agree with Rick that a FINAL MASTER PLAN should have been in place so that the property owners would have something to work with.

This is exactly why I take the "plans" for redevelopment in the city with a grain of salt. I don't know how many plans have been prepared only to be tossed in a corner and a new one commissioned. The only thing we can really count on is that todays plan will be superceeded by another, and we'll be no further ahead.

[Rick Rowlands]

YSU is moving in the direction of downtown, and trampling upon the rights of one of the city's taxpaying citizens in the process. 

Perhaps YSU should have had a development plan in place before they started expanding in every direction.  For a while the big kick was to go west.  Then they went north over the expressway.  Then they put housing to the east in the hollow.  Now the big thing is to grow southward.  You would have to be an athelete to walk from downtown to the Lyden House. About a mile, uphill all the way.  Thats crazy.

[northside lurker]

I'll post a link to the students' presentations, when they are available.

There were many innovative ideas.

Here's the link:
http://ourmedia.org/node/357294

Click the "media (original)" link, and a PDF will open.

[Towntalk]

You're absolutely right.

By the way, here's an important link about what I spoke about i my last post:

http://www.vindy.com/content/opinion/editorial/315804746393642.php

Some time ago, I seem to remember about some plans for YSU to have some classes in the former Phar-Mor building. Whatever happened to that plan?

Outside of building a new building downtown, and finding an angel to come up with the money to pay for it, where could the University locate downtown, and what subjects would be taught there?

The private sector angels who have the money to endow to YSU have their limits, and there aren't too many outsiders that want to invest in the University.

[northside lurker]

Maybe this is why no one suggested that YSU build a building downtown?

However, this is no reason to ignore the fact that YSU is a couple blocks from (and yet, seemingly miles away from) downtown.  Making a more inviting connection between the two is still a good idea.

[Towntalk]

This morning on the Dan Rivers Show there was some very disturbing news that affects YSU.

Officials in Columbus are looking to take the Medical School in Rootstown away from us and give it to Cleveland, and promote a Community College for Youngstown that would not be a part of YSU, but would reduce the amount of State money that YSU would get.

While we're dreaming our dreams about YSU and downtown Youngstown we'd better wake up and start smelling the coffee. The state will decide our future and there's nothing we can do about it except cry.

At one time YSU had an extremely good Law School, but the state in it's wisdom took it away from us, and now they are going to take our Medical School away, and reduce our state funding. What's the next thing we will loose?

[northside lurker]

That's an interesting idea Jay.  Everyone seems to view YSU as a single entity to the north, and downtown as an entity to the south.  Because of this, I think it's easy to overlook putting a YSU building downtown.

[Mary]

One reason may be the Southwoods center in boardman. However i have heard that southwoods may not be for much longer.

Building on your idea it would be great if YSU and the YBI could do some type of a class together. It would be good for both the students and YBI.

[jay]

I attended the presentation by the five student groups from Michigan.  As I watched the proposals to lure students from the university zone to the downtown zone, I couldn't help but ask why Youngstown State University doesn't build one or more classroom buildings downtown.   The question of luring students to downtown would be over.  Many students would have to come downtown to attend their classes.  Beyond that, it is up to the downtown businesses and entertainment venues to effectively sell their product to both the student population and the valley's general population.

[northside lurker]

I'll post a link to the students' presentations, when they are available.

There were many innovative ideas.

[Towntalk]

About the city schools ... You're absolutely right, they are an utter failure, and until that is corrected, what young family would want to come into the city to live, but every time this fact is pointed out, people post messages that say that we don't know what we're talking about in spite of the fact that we're not the only ones that are saying it ... even the Chamber of Commerce says that mighty changes are needed.

I can understand ... school teachers in the city system get bent out of shape when it's pointed out to them that they are doing a miserable job, and Board members get angry when it's pointed out to them that they are a total failure ... but that doesn't change the bottom line fact that the system is just not working, and building new schools isn't going to solve the problem.

We can find all sorts of excuses ... blame the students ... blame the families ... blame the system ... not enough money, but that isn't getting us anywhere. The time for playing the blame game is long past ... we all know down deep what the problem is ... we all have our part to play because we as voters allow it to happen when we don't treat the Board of Education races as seriously as we do the Mayors race at election time, and when we collectively don't hold the Board members feet to the fire, but sit back and tolerate their pathetic excuses.

Personally though, I doubt seriously if anyone here really cares, and base that on the fact that this has been a long time in coming, it's not a new issue, and nothing has changed, it's only gotten worse.

While we're at it, we need a little reality check. Of the total population of Youngstown:

1. How many people are senior citizens on fixed income?
2. How many are on welfare?
3. How many people rent rather than own their own home?

What are the exact numbers, and how do these numbers impact on the city and the city school system?

The Board wants to put a new levy on the ballot, but if it does, exactly how many people will it really impact. Precisely how many city property owners will be seeing hikes in their property tax? Certainly folks living outside the city who own property here will also be paying, but what I want to know is the exact number of home owners who live here 24/7 will be affected, and their income status ... employed, retired with a pension, retired and on Social Security, on public assistance. How many have children in the city school system verses private schools?

Rather than waste our time on studies on the downtown area, lets have a comprehensive study on the sorry state of the Youngstown School System. I seriously doubt that anyone here would take the time to read it, but such a study at least would be a good first step in turning the system around.

[shantrivialand]

You can have as many plans as you want, but like I said before, you won't get anywhere unless you fix the school system first.  If you want business in Youngstown that can be economically supported by the people in Youngstown then the people in Youngstown need to be well educated so that they can have to types of jobs that can build and support a srong economy. 

[northside lurker]

Let me start off by saying I'm very tired.  But, I am somewhat distressed by your reaction to these students' work, so I feel compelled to reply now.

People just do not show up on our doorstep one night and say we want to do a study. They do not meet with city officials and businessmen unannounced and unplanned for, nor does any university pick up the tab for every Tom, Dick and Harry that comes along.

Nor would the University of Michigan allow it's students to go off on a lark.

Clearly it was planned, and funded.

I went to school at KSU and studied architecture. (Kent has an urban design program for it's M.Arch students that is similar to Michigan's)  We would often travel to other cities to work on projects there--without help from the school or the target city.  The students from Michigan are studying urban design, and Youngstown (along with Chicago and Ann Arbor) is one of their target cities.  In my case, at the beginning of a project, our professors informed us that our project would be located in a certain location.  I don't know if every school works the same; perhaps the Michigan students chose Youngstown because of its innovative 2010 plan.

Frankly, I wish the projects we were working on had been more reality-based--like what the Michigan students are working on.  We were never given the opportunity to present our ideas to the cities our projects were located in.  (For example, in my 5th year studio, a group of approximately 15 students generated 5 separate urban design ideas for Cleveland's Gateway district.)

I don't know what your beef is with the 2010 Plan, or for that matter what your expertise is to pass judgement on it, but the fact remains that it has been given high points by real national experts, and Youngstown has been given a very high score again nationally to the extent that other cities are coming here to learn more about it so that they could apply it in their cities.

Here is one taxpayer that is fed up with this never ending planning that wastes money and gets no results. This city and its people deserve more.

The work these students are doing is not intended to take the place of the 2010 plan.  I don't believe Janko has any problem with the 2010 plan.  He is just stating what it is.  The 2010 plan is general, and these students are coming up with very specific ideas, that the city has the option of listening to.

As to YSU "not having the expertise", might I point out to you the Smokey Hollow project, or are you putting that down also?

I for one do not give YSU or it's students short shrift. My deepest regret is that there are not more jobs available locally to keep them here once they've graduated. They deserve much more than they're getting ... not from YSU, but the business community. It's a crime that they get a top notch education here, but have to move to other states to get work.

I checked, and YSU doesn't have an urban design program.  KSU is the closest school that has a program equivalent to Michigan's.  And, KSU has already helped work on the 2010 plan.  I believe they worked on the Oak Hill neighborhood.  It's not about overlooking YSU students in favor of outsiders; it's simply that YSU doesn't have an equivalent academic program.

I have been following the planning for Youngstown's future, and make a point of reading all the studies that have been commissioned since 1980, and I'm here to tell you that none of them has been fully implemented, and if they had, we wouldn't be in the position we're in now.

Again, this plan wasn't commissioned.  As part of their education, these students are generating ideas for downtown.

...BUT, until this city gets it's crime problem under control what person in their right mind would want to move into the city especially when they would have to travel to the suburbs to do their shopping.

The downtown may very well be safe, but in order to get to where all the stores are, they would have to drive through areas that are nothing short of war zones.

This is getting a little off topic, but if the Utopian ideas these students are surely generating would be carried out exactly as they envision, there would be no need to leave downtown.  I don't really know what these students will come up with, but I suspect they have a more European type of city in mind.

[Towntalk]

Westsider just how long must we wait before we come to a final conclusion? Just how many more studies are required before you're satisfied? Just how much longer must we wait before the end has been reached?

[Towntalk]

Janko, do you know those things as an absolute first hand fact that can be documented, or are they your personal opinion?

People just do not show up on our doorstep one night and say we want to do a study. They do not meet with city officials and businessmen unannounced and unplanned for, nor does any university pick up the tab for every Tom, Dick and Harry that comes along.

Nor would the University of Michigan allow it's students to go off on a lark.

Clearly it was planned, and funded.

I don't know what your beef is with the 2010 Plan, or for that matter what your expertise is to pass judgement on it, but the fact remains that it has been given high points by real national experts, and Youngstown has been given a very high score again nationally to the extent that other cities are coming here to learn more about it so that they could apply it in their cities.

Here is one taxpayer that is fed up with this never ending planning that wastes money and gets no results. This city and its people deserve more.

As to YSU "not having the expertise", might I point out to you the Smokey Hollow project, or are you putting that down also?

I for one do not give YSU or it's students short shrift. My deepest regret is that there are not more jobs available locally to keep them here once they've graduated. They deserve much more than they're getting ... not from YSU, but the business community. It's a crime that they get a top notch education here, but have to move to other states to get work.

I have been following the planning for Youngstown's future, and make a point of reading all the studies that have been commissioned since 1980, and I'm here to tell you that none of them has been fully implemented, and if they had, we wouldn't be in the position we're in now.

Again, we seem to keep forgetting that there are two private developers who are turning two downtown buildings into condos, and YSU has spent millions building housing in the Smokey Hollow area, and I'm in favor of those efforts.

And where in the immediate downtown area can a private developer build a new high rise. Aside from two or three buildings the rest of the West End is either in use now or soon to be developed.

I don't know the current status of the Stambaugh Building, but if that building were free and clear for development, it could be looked on for housing, BUT, until this city gets it's crime problem under control what person in their right mind would want to move into the city especially when they would have to travel to the suburbs to do their shopping.

The downtown may very well be safe, but in order to get to where all the stores are, they would have to drive through areas that are nothing short of war zones.

Hopefully, if Liberty Township gets a WalMart, other stores will move into the Belmont Avenue area, and downtown residents wouldn't have to drive through the South Side war zone, but that's in the future, and we have to deal with the cards that are delt here and now.