Another closing

[iwasthere]

me three

[Towntalk]

And me.

[Peggy Gurney]

Grocery stores are typically much cheaper than convenience stores and "Mom and Pop"
corner stores.  I would think the downtown seniors who are on a fixed income would
patronize a downtown grocer for this reason, and close proximity to the downtown
seniors' high rise apartments (there are two, I think?).

.... unless, of course, it is a high-end grocery store like many of the other establishments that have opened downtown, who cater to the folks with money, and price lower-income folks (like myself) out of reach. 

[AllanY2525]

I wonder exactly how many people do live downtown, and what the population density has to be for a grocery store to thrive?  There may be a concentrated area of middle class living downtown, but that is surrounded by a belt of underpopulated neighborhoods full of lower class residents.  It takes a population of about 4,000 people to sustain a grocery store.  How many people live downtown?  Less than 500 perhaps?  Then go out into the surrounding neighborhoods where there are more people, but these are not the same demographics and would not be able to support a Giant Eagle, which caters to a more affluent customer base.  By the same token would those paying $1,200 a month for a downtown apartment be satisfied by the limited selection of an Aldi's or Bottom Dollar type store?   To keep a store profitable it would have to be patronized by people who live in the suburbs, and the stigma of downtown still persists keeping many of them away. 

The real issue here is people now wanting to live in an area that historically was not built for habitation.  Downtown was a place for business, not housing. 

Im wondering how many more people who are not residents might patronize a downtown
grocery store, given that several thousand people a day work in and visit the downtown
(aside from those who actually live there)  I think I read a estimate of about 4,000 online
somewhere....I apologize that I can't recall the website where I saw this.  I don't know how
accurate that estimate is, of course.

Imagine that the approx. 1,000 employees in the call center at 20 Federal place alone
suddenly had a great variety of lunch stuff available to them at a nearby store, for
example.....

Now add in the folks at that the University right up the hill a block or two - which is another
couple thousand(?) people who do not live downtown either.

Now add in [ number compleletly unknown to you or me or anyone right now, of course ]
the number of people living on the near North, South, East and West sides who could
patronize such a store (if close enough to them and if prices are low enough to provide
an alternative to "convenience" stores in their neighborhoods...)

Now add in patrons of the hotel when it opens.

Now add in visitors of events at the Covelli Center who might stop in before or
after an event there, and visitors to the outdoor amphitheater and/or events
on the grounds (IF this project comes to pass - it's not a done deal yet....).

If you add up all of these categories, I think a grocery store downtown could
be viable.  NOT just yet...but I think the downtown IS going reach that point
in the not too distant future if the progress continues there.


As far as "historically" and "was" go in regard to the downtown,  times change and the
downtown is not what it once was.  It will never be exactly what it used to be again.
New things and new ideas have been a staple of the downtown's return from the grave.

Having new things such as residential living spaces in an area that did not "historically"
have them has been a good thing for Youngstown.  It's like sticking an I.V. needle in
the arm of a sick patient and infusing much needed medicine, ie: people with some
money to spend, who have jobs and a decent income.  Long vacant buildings that
have been given new life and are in use and productive again.

Grocery stores are typically much cheaper than convenience stores and "Mom and Pop"
corner stores.  I would think the downtown seniors who are on a fixed income would
patronize a downtown grocer for this reason, and close proximity to the downtown
seniors' high rise apartments (there are two, I think?).

With regard to the "stigma" of coming downtown, the more it develops and comes
back to life and thrives again, the more this "stigma" will fade away.

[Peggy Gurney]

If you're talking about the building that was the former R&G grocer (or something like that), Dominick Marchionda owns it.  One side of it was painted by YSUscape, a mural, about a year ago or so.
Good job.  But what good is a mural if the building is not being used. 
The Wick Park Neighborhood association has been houding him about this building for a few years now.

[Towntalk]

Unfortunately or fortunately that building will most likely come down when the new No. 7 Fire Station is built. The land has already been obtained by the City.

[penguinnick]

The absolute perfect spot for a grocery store is on the North Side where the old dingy grocery store used to be on Elm Street.  You have the possibility for an amazing neighborhood with YSU employees and students living there and many cultural ammenities.  A small grocery store built there would be a community builder for the North side and makes perfect sense, but we cannot even build a grocery store there for whatever reason.  This should be a priority.

[Rick Rowlands]

I wonder exactly how many people do live downtown, and what the population density has to be for a grocery store to thrive?  There may be a concentrated area of middle class living downtown, but that is surrounded by a belt of underpopulated neighborhoods full of lower class residents.  It takes a population of about 4,000 people to sustain a grocery store.  How many people live downtown?  Less than 500 perhaps?  Then go out into the surrounding neighborhoods where there are more people, but these are not the same demographics and would not be able to support a Giant Eagle, which caters to a more affluent customer base.  By the same token would those paying $1,200 a month for a downtown apartment be satisfied by the limited selection of an Aldi's or Bottom Dollar type store?   To keep a store profitable it would have to be patronized by people who live in the suburbs, and the stigma of downtown still persists keeping many of them away. 

The real issue here is people now wanting to live in an area that historically was not built for habitation.  Downtown was a place for business, not housing. 

[AllanY2525]

While we all want a grocery store downtown, downtown Pittsburgh has many more people living downtown and yet there is no full scale grocery store in downtown  Pittsburgh.  So don't hold your breath.  If the Smokey Hollow project ever comes to fruition that would be beneficial for a downtown grocery store to be built.

I'm not holding any breath here, but I'm also not thinking that grocers here are gonna
base their business decisions solely on another city over an hour away, in another state,
and in a completely different market, either.....

[Towntalk]

When I was living in Pittsburgh there was a Giant Eagle three blocks away from my apartment house and a shopping mall across the street. I lived on the North Side at Ceder and East Ohio Ave.

[penguinnick]

While we all want a grocery store downtown, downtown Pittsburgh has many more people living downtown and yet there is no full scale grocery store in downtown  Pittsburgh.  So don't hold your breath.  If the Smokey Hollow project ever comes to fruition that would be beneficial for a downtown grocery store to be built.

[AllanY2525]

The downtown Cedars location is still empty.

Looks like this building won't be empty much longer.  Yet MORE people will be moving downtown
and if this keeps up, there WILL be a grocery store there some day in the not too distant future
because there will be a viable customer base.

[Towntalk]

http://businessjournaldaily.com/5-9m-renovation-of-gallagher-building-set-for-spring/

[AllanY2525]

The downtown Cedars location is still empty.

If the building is still worth re-habbing, someone will use it eventually.  Right now there is still
too much vacant office space downtown.  20 Federal Place is still not at 100% occupancy,
for example.

[Towntalk]

So? Did it ever occure to you that it takes time and money to remodel a building that is about 100 years old? Look at how long it took to get remodeling done to the old Grant building on Hazel and West Federal?