DON'T "Draw the Line"

[iwasthere]

seven or five wards are doable for elected council reps.

[Nicholas Serra]

Awful idea. Whoever thinks it's great isn't very well educated about Youngstown and the importance of the existing wards.

https://www.facebook.com/drawthelineyo
http://www.drawthelineyoungstown.blogspot.com/

Interested to hear your opinions on the importance of seven. If we needed 7 wards 100,000 people ago, why do we need 7 now?

[Towntalk]

Based on our current population of 66,982 in order to insure that all of the wards would be equal, the numbers break down as follows:

5 Wards --- 13,396.4 each ward
7 Wards --- 9,568.9 each ward

[Towntalk]

Youngstown demographics

http://suburbanstats.org/population/ohio/how-many-people-live-in-youngstown

[joly1584]

From Youngstown Charter & Ordinances

[/size]DIVISION OF CITY INTO WARDS

[/size]   Section 83.
[/size]Before September 1, 1923, the present Council shall divide the City into seven wards .  All wards shall be composed of contiguous and compact territory, as nearly equal in population as possible, and bounded by natural boundaries or street lines.  If the Council fails to make such sub-division into wards within said time, the Director of Law shall make such sub-division within thirty (30) days thereafter.  Upon annexation of new territory to the City, Council shall apportion the same to an existing ward or wards .  Following each Federal Census, Council shall re-district the City whenever there is a reasonable population change, so as to maintain a reasonable equality of population among the seven wards .
[/size](Amended November 6, 2012)




The law seems to give the Council a deadline in 1923, but does not seem to have a deadline for subsequent population changes.  Just my interpretation - I am not an attorney.

You can get to the Youngstown Charter & Ordinances through the City's website.

On a side note - several years ago Cleveland amended their charter to not only realign the wards but also decrease/increase the number of wards based on the change in population.

[iwasthere]

i thought it was every ten yrs instead of four yrs.

[Towntalk]

Is it possable to have all the wards 100% equal in population? No as I previously stated, so every four years we are going to have to take a physical  city census to insure that all the wards are within an acceptable percentage point because people die, move away, are born, or move in and this impacts the bottom line that you insist upon.

[Peggy Gurney]

That is what I tried to say, thank you, PD.


TT, if you want the exact words, word for word, you'll have to get a copy of the charter and read it. 

[Towntalk]

Thank you PD ... by the way view my latest post about my love for Youngstown.

[PD]

Actually it's against the constitution to have wards that are not within a certain percentage of each other with regards to Population.
I think thats what Peggy meant.  It is not illegal to have 7 wards at all

[Towntalk]

I want the exact words, word for word, with all the footnotes, and a clarification from a lawyer specializing in this area of the law. None of us are lawyers, and while I'm not opposed to ward changes, most of the questions I've raised have not been answered ... everyone is beating around the Poison Ivy repeating the same old arguments. We know that the City could be taken into court ... heavens to Sam Jones, that statement has been put out here so many times since this whole issue first came up that only a total stranger who can neither see nor hear is the only one who doesn't know that. What we haven't heard from is a LEGAL AUTHORITY ie. ATTORNEY AT LAW whose speciality covers these matters.
Now mind you, I'm not opposed to changing ward boundaries, BUT I want it done by trained experts, and not by amateurs or ward healers.
The Board of Elections is qualified to give us a new ward map since they have the best data as to the city's population, yet because this doesn't please Phil Kidd, and the 4th and 5th ward councilmen they're out to get their own way in spite of what is best for the city.

[Peggy Gurney]

It is against the law - our charter - for Yo to have 7 wards, as they are drawn now, with the current population.

Youngstown is a charter city, so it is governed by the laws in the charter, not state or federal laws.  The charter says that Youngstown must redistrict following each census if there is a large population change. There has been, according to every census for the past 30 yrs, a large population decline, yet they have disregarded the charter requirement to redistrict.  A federal lawsuit could have been filed against city council for not being in compliance with the city charter.

Also, there is no way to make the population in each ward 100% equal. That has been acknowledged from the beginning. The goal is to make them as equal as possible.

Whether 5 or 7 wards, is of no consequence, except for the fact that it would save the city quite a bit of money. Every other department in the city has had to make concessions, take pay cuts or pay freezes, reduce the staff, etc.  All but our city council.  It's time for a change, imo.

[Towntalk]

QUESTIONS:
1. What law specifically says that it is illegal for Youngstown to have seven wards?
2. IF the seven wards can be population equal or as equal as can be humanly able to achieve, what is illegal about it?
3. The Board of Election drew a map that would make the seven wards in conformity with the law.
4. IT is virtually imposable to achieve absolute equality in all the wards whether 5 or 7. People move out of  the city, people move in; babies are born; people die, and these events change the dynamics, so that a map in 2015 would be illegal after the next census, and conceiveably Youngstown would be reduced to 3 councilmen, since there is no indication that the city will acheve significant population growth. We might even be reduced to having a Board of Trustees because of significant loss in population would have to make us revisit the whole structure of Youngstown's government.
To date, no one has given us the EXACT chapter and verse of state or federal law that mandates the exact number of councilmen a city may have. All that it says is that each ward must be as close as possable population wise to equal. Nothing more, nothing less.
NOTE: To make sure that all the wards are 100% equal 100% of the time we would have to redraw ward boundry lines at least every four years since a wards population in 2015 would not remain the EXACT same in 2020.

[YoungstownBiker]

Awful idea. Whoever thinks it's great isn't very well educated about Youngstown and the importance of the existing wards.

https://www.facebook.com/drawthelineyo
http://www.drawthelineyoungstown.blogspot.com/