"Big Oil Drill In Youngstown"

[kenneyjoe330]

THANK YOU Mr. Youngstownshrimp for you short and simple reply.   AllanY2525 reminded us quite plainly "100 years ago, we ALREADY KNEW these chemicals were toxic".  Thank you AllanY2524 for your input and bring a sense of history into this my humble inquiry.  You, yourself, refuse to admit or even consider what is already known. "

Kennyjoe,  You know the operation and pollution of the Steel mills were done a long time ago when science did not fathom the harm to the environment.  Just like when we had outhouses, we evolved and got educated.  If you really want to understand the new technology of hydrofracking, you need to read........alot.  The internet has a lot of information, but you need to be smart enough to know who is talking science and who has an agenda to keep us in the dark ages.

Your analogy of the evolution of "natural elimination" is extremely poor at best.  I am sure if you thought about it more "that" "natural process" evolved more out of conveyance and indoor water source and urban sewer system than out of - if I may use the term - capitalistic greed.  If I can recall "The Mills" were required to control environmental issues.  I can well remember here in Lansingville - by the way was "up stream from the wind" - everywhere outside being covered by flecks of silver something or other and having to sweep the porch and sidewalks - not mentioning the cloths drying on the line.  Did you ever think what that did to lungs? ? ?  DAA ! ! !  "The Mills" were very reluctant to "spend any money" to correct the problem and were FORCED to do so by the government.  Their main objective was to make a profit - THE BIGGER THE PROFIT BETTER - anyone lungs are expendable when PROFIT IS evolved, most especially when those receiving the profit live far way for their toxic source. 
I 

[AllanY2525]

With regard to the steel mills and polluting the river - even 60 years ago "science" was well aware that the toxic chemicals that
were being dumped into the river were dangerous.  Even then they knew that if someone drank, or swam in, water that had
petroleum, zinc, toluene (sp?), arsenic, etc - it would NOT bode well for them.  100 years ago, we ALREADY KNEW these chemicals
were toxic.

The problem with the mills and the Mahoning river is that the government looked the other way and let it happen, year after
year, for a VERY long time.  Trying to get these now-extinct steel companies to pay for a cleanup of the river would be like trying
to make elephants fly - it ain't gonna happen in our lifetime, most likely.  If any government entity could do the job, it would be
the Army Corps of Engineers - these guys are AWESOME - and they really know their SH*T.   There isn't a whole lot these guys
CAN'T do....

Too bad the government can't just give them the go-ahead, and GET IT DONE.  Those low-rise dams along the river need to
be taken out, and the riverbed dredged out to remove the pollutants, as stated in the last 'study" that was done several
years ago.  With fresh sand, rocks, etc. re-lining the riverbed, the water would return to a natural state - fish caught in the
river would be safe to eat, people could go swimming, etc without fear of contamination.

As far as fracking, I have not done any reading (yet) so I really haven't formed any opinion about the environmental aspects,
but I DO favor having a viable, sustainable source of revenue for the area once again after all these years since the mills
closed.  If it can be done in a responsible and safe manner, and if the industry is properly regulated to make sure the oil
companies are exercising  due diligence, I am all for it.

[Youngstownshrimp]

Kennyjoe,  You know the operation and pollution of the Steel mills were done a long time ago when science did not fathom the harm to the environment.  Just like when we had outhouses, we evolved and got educated.  If you really want to understand the new technology of hydrofracking, you need to read........alot.  The internet has a lot of information, but you need to be smart enough to know who is talking science and who has an agenda to keep us in the dark ages.

[kenneyjoe330]

Mr. Youngstownshrimp - for as much as I like some of your idea's - you would do me a great favor and explain to me - (is it once again  ?) about why the Mahoning River is the toxic waste water it is  and HOW , quoting you "Free Enterprise People are all about the respect . . . . "  and how Capitalism and Free Enterprise have NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CONDITION OF THE MAHONING RIVER and if you wish you surly can weave "The Unions" into your solicited responce 

How did The Mahoning River (and others too - some that caught fire) get "THAT" way.  Who IS responsible ?   Who IS going to clean them up and at what cost to who ?    I respectfully ask your thoughts on this matter ?   

I believe this belongs in this thread mainly because I can see this happing because of fracking to WATER THAT IS UNDERGROUND AND CAN NOT BE SEEN.   Fracking not only USES WATER but the water used becomes POLUTED - does it not ?   If you have water running through pipes you have small leeks - you do have indoor plumbing  ?  And you have never had a leek    Small unseen polluted water leaks in a very large operation are to Capitalists inconsequential but over time can do much harm to people that are not so Capitalistic  Can you understand what I, and others, are trying to say ?   

[Youngstownshrimp]

Here's one to see if the environmentalist here actually are for real, rumours have it that this rig is a disposal well next to Lincoln Park.

What say you?

[Youngstownshrimp]

Rick,  Thanks for the tip on Pulaski, I just heard today that another rig maybe going into Lawrence county.  As of today, there is only one deep drill in Lawrence county and Shell is the dominant player there.  However, this oil rush changes everyday, no one could have guessed that they would move into Youngstown so quickly.

[irishbobcat]

Will your job at a fracking station help a family once their land and water becomes toxic and poisoned?

I don't think so.....

Will you take your fracking job money and help pay for the family to be moved?

I don't think so.....

Will you take your fracking job money and give the family a fair price for their devalued land and water?

I don't think so......


Again, the neo-con conservatives only care about padding their wallets and say screw you to the families who lands and

waters are destroyed and lives are ruined......so much for compassionate conservatives.......

[ytowner]

JUST SAY NO TO FRACKING>>>>>>

Essentially he means, just say no to jobs... :/

[irishbobcat]

JUST SAY NO TO FRACKING>>>>>>

[Youngstownshrimp]

Free Enterprise people are all about the respect and we are beginning to see that the extreme entitled here have all but run away after being reduced to name calling as a final argument.  Your post speaks well to honest dialogue however, the Dr. of English you quote seems to exacerbate the accidents and science of the newer technology that is allowing our minerals to be tapped for the betterment of our society as a whole.  We have an abundance of qualified scientist who study and speak to concerns in this technology and I leave it them to educate us but we people will be aware of those with other agendas.  Other agendas such as creating hysteria without thorough scientific fact and more so without an alternative solution to our energy needs and consumption.  So to me and many, give us an alternative solution in real time as we get educated in this blessing our region is at the doorstep of.

[susie beiersdorfer]

They're here!  We are not going to stop the "progress" of drilling for hydrocarbons and the fervor for profit but we MUST ensure that our ecosystem services (water and waterways, air, earth, trees) remain viable and usable (as in sustainable).  This is not only an environmental issue and an economic issue, it is a SOCIAL JUSTICE issue!  "We the people" must educate ourselves and join together to DEMAND regulation and meaningful accountability.  We must DEMAND appropriate penalties for companies who come in to exploit our resources for their profit and have accidents for which they'd rather not assume responsibility.

Dr. Bob Myers (links to an editorial and paper below and a brief bio)  will be presenting at the Grey to Green Festival next Saturday Sept. 10 at 10 AM at the First Unitarian Universalist Church on Elm and at 3 PM at the Wick Park Pavilion.  He will be with us the whole day and will spend some of his time at the Fracking Information Table.  Here's hoping for some honest and respectful dialogue as we all try to learn more about this "new boom"  and how we can preserve the quality of life that our area offers...

Editorial:
http://www.pennlive.com/letters/index.ssf/2011/09/marcellus_violators_form_impre.html
Article:
http://www.lhup.edu/rmyers3/marcellus.htm

Professor Myers has a PhD in English from the Pennsylvania State University, and since 1999 he has taught at Lock Haven University of Pennsylvania, where he is a Professor of English, and Director of the Environmental Studies Program.  He has been researching the environmental effects of hydro-fracking since 2007 and has presented his work in his website "The Environmental Dangers of Hydro-Fracking the Marcellus Shale" (http://www.lhup.edu/rmyers3/marcellus.htm) as well as through many speaking engagements (listed on the website).

[Towntalk]

Youngstown ... They said it was on Campbell land ... Campbell ... They said it was a Coitsville problem ... Coitsville ... They said it wasn't their problem. The dumping was taking place near the old WHOT studio and tower. Apparently the way boundry lines are set that section is a no man's land that not even the County Engeneer could resolve.

Today the City of Youngstown polices that area for illegal dumping but back then it was a favorite site for dumping, and even today it's still used.

[Rick Rowlands]

Who couldn't read a map? 

[Towntalk]

The boundries in that area are really confusing ... Campbell ... Youngstown ... Coitsville.

Several years ago there was a major illegal dumping problem in that area and we had one heck of a time trying to find out which authority to turn to to have it remitted. They all passed the buck.

[Youngstownshrimp]

Campbell side, but I am pretty sure it is Youngstown limits.