Future Of The Working Class - Monday, August 3

[elecpencil]

SFC Oliver ~ I prefer Anarcho-syndicalism that takes the best points of all the systems and adds even more democracy. See here for a short video on these ideals:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-H0LYUQIPUU

[sfc_oliver]

Do I understand that you prefer Socialism or Communism over Capitalism?

[elecpencil]

The poor will always be with us under a capitalist system that is for sure. The bible also says, "We are our brothers keeper."

Peter Maurin said, "Christian personalism, makes each person responsible for the suffering Christ who stands before him in the person of the poor. It differs dramatically from an economic order characterized by rugged individualism, competitiveness and the profit motive."

He also said, " Capitalism is incompatible with the Christian Gospel because it renders the person subservient to the production of wealth. No economic system which places greater value on the accumulation of wealth than on the dignity of the human person deserves the support of those who claim to be followers of Jesus Christ. It leads to alienation and a loss of a sense of personal participation in community life."

I quoted him because he says it better than I can.

[sfc_oliver]

Sorry but no we do not make our own dough.

But again allow me to remind people that it doesn't matter what you believe when it comes to the Christian bible. You have to admit that it was written roughly 2000 years ago. And part of what was written says that the poor will always be with us. Many have tried to change that and all have failed. The poor are still with us. Of course poor in America is probably rich somewhere else.

[elecpencil]

Capitalism has been responsible for many Imperialist, wars over resources. In its most extreme form (Fascism) it slaughtered millions during the First and Second World Wars. There are still wars being waged in Africa over diamonds and gold and in the Middle-East over oil.

The best way to conduct human affairs would be a democratic Anarcho-Syndicalist system: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-syndicalism

Getting rich won't make for a better world getting poor will as the following Peter Maurin's poem states:

Better Or Better Off

1. The world would be better off,
     if people tried
     to become better.

2. And people would
     become better
     if they stopped trying
     to be better off.

3. For when everybody tries
     to become better off,
     nobody is better off.

4. But when everybody tries
     to become better,
     everybody is better off.

5. Everybody would be rich
     if nobody tried
     to be richer.

6. And nobody would be poor
     if everybody tried
     to be the poorest.

7. And everybody would be
     what he ought to be
     if everybody tried to be
     what he wants
     the other fellow to be.

[Rick Rowlands]

Yes I agree that if capitalism was left to its own devices those corporations and banks that made bad decisions and failed should have gone the way of Lehman Brothers and disappeared.  The only way that capitalism failed was the government's intervention of propping up failed businesses. 

Capitalism is not perfect, but is still the best way to conduct human affarirs.  Far many more people have been uplifted by capitalism than harmed by it.  You may not agree with that statement, but it is the motivation of making a profit and dare I say "getting rich" that has been behind every major advancement in human history.

[elecpencil]

Rick~ I'm willing to pay higher prices for USA made goods. If something is to high priced consumers won't buy it so corporations will have to lower the price and realize they don't have to make 300% profit on everything they make. It's call the law of supply and demand. Two -thirds of your beloved Corporations already don't pay taxes and I don't see them giving anything away free. I'd say that takes care of your raising prices to offset taxes theory.

Cut down on waste of the military budget and getting ripped off by Haliburton and Blackwater and we won't need more taxes to keep fighting your beloved illegal wars and paying your beloved rip off private military contractors. Start making your beloved deadbeat corporations pay taxes and we won't need to have our taxes raised.

When capitalism gives WalMart a billion dollars in corporate welfare and they make 100's of billions a year that is stupid capitalism. If you didn't notice Wall Street and the banks were bailed out because CAPITALISM FAILED. The government won't be my beloved government until the corporations and their conservative puppets no longer own it.

SFC Oliver~ On a lighter note do you make home made pizza? I sometimes buy ready to go pizza shells to make pizza for my kids so they can top it with what they want. I have not found a decent recipe to make my own dough.

[Rick Rowlands]

Any corporate taxes paid are passed on to consumers in the form of higher prices.

But aside from that, why can't this government run its affairs for the Trillion or so dollars it takes in every year already?  Why does it need more than that? 

You call capitalism "failed" but it is capitalism that is providing all the money to keep your beloved government afloat.  Can you see the irony in that? 

[sfc_oliver]

If all this is true then it is the taxman who has the problem and this is where any increase in revenue needs to come from. Close the loop holes if that's what it is, But it still holds true that as taxes go up so does either prices or unemployment.

BTW:

Delivery estimate: August 13, 2009 - August 18, 2009
Shipping estimate for these items: August 10, 2009 - August 11, 2009
   1    "Rada Cutlery Deluxe Vegetable Peeler, Aluminum Handle, Made in USA"
$7.90

  Sold by: Mountain Laurel Mercantile
   1    "Rada Cutlery Regular Paring Knife, Aluminum Handle, Made in USA"
$4.95

  Sold by: Mountain Laurel Mercantile
   1    "Rada Cutlery Pizza Cutter, Aluminum Handle, Made in USA"
$11.50

  Sold by: Mountain Laurel Mercantile


Thank you for the link.

[elecpencil]

2/3 of companies paying no taxes is definitely wrong to happen but it does: http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=5561455

Extremely high-income returns are more likely to have income from capital gains and dividends, not necessarily profits from a company they own. The Internal Revenue Service estimates that it is able to accurately tax 99 percent of wage income but that it captures only about 70 percent of business and investment income, most of which flows to upper-income individuals, because not everybody accurately reports such figures.

Corporate tax contributions as a percent of overall federal revenue have been declining for fifty years and now stand at 7.4% despite massive record profits. I don't believe that unearned income" (dividends, interest, capital gains) should be taxed lower than earned income, meaning actual work. Unearned income involves passive income, including inheritances and windfalls, while people actually doing work  involves physical wear, sweat and blood many times under unsafe conditions, for these earnings.

I love how working-class conservatives always want to take up the defense of the rich. They laugh at you all the way to the bank.

[sfc_oliver]

And yet the top 1% of earners pay 40% of the taxes? You would think they would have some type of gripe about this. Sorry but the numbers simply do not come together for me.

2/3 of Coprs pay no taxes yet 1% of the top pay 40%. Something is definitely wrong here.

I'm serious about the Pizza cutter, I'll check it out.


(order placed for pizza cutter.)

[elecpencil]

Sarge ~ First off I voted for Nader. I'm happy to hook anyone up with a USA made product. Here ya go on the pizza cutter: http://www.amazon.com/Rada-Cutlery-Cutter-Aluminum-Handle/dp/B000MW2AS6

The people who create the jobs won't have their taxes raised as they pay no taxes now. Two-thirds of U.S. corporations paid no federal income taxes between 1998 and 2005, according to a new report from Congress.

The study by the Government Accountability Office said about 68 percent of foreign companies doing business in the U.S. avoided corporate taxes over the same period.

Collectively, the companies reported trillions of dollars in sales, according to GAO's estimate.

People's taxes always get raised because the corporations are all getting welfare and someone has to pay to keep propping up this failed capitalism. Each year, U.S. taxpayers subsidize U.S. businesses to the tune of almost $125 billion, the equivalent of all the income tax paid by 60 million individuals and families.

[sfc_oliver]

That's ok elecpencil, your Lord and Master Mr Obama will double those jobs that either leave the country or simply cease to exist. Keep raising taxes on the people who create the jobs and see where they go.

Even Donald Trump is pulling out of New York because of the taxes.

And by the way I have been looking for a Pizza cutter made in the USA, Haven't found one yet. I do buy American when I can.

[elecpencil]

SFC Oliver ~ Maybe you worship the corporations as your master and overlord but not me. I can do without any of these companies. I don't shop at WalMart, Sam's Club and dollar stores so I'm able to avoid the bulk of sweatshop goods. As a consumer as I've gotten older I find I really don't need much. 

Despite not being natural persons, corporations are recognized by the law to have rights and responsibilities like actual people. I'm saying these US companies have no loyalty to this country like you'd expect from a US citizen. As a citizen if I polluted US water, air and soil at !% of what these companies did I'd be in jail. So much for corporations being my fellow citizens.

No one knows how many service jobs have been outsourced abroad, because U.S. companies are not required to keep such statistics. However, Boston-based consultancy Forrester estimates that jobs leave the U.S. at a rate of 12,000 to 15,000 per month. While other sources believe 20,000 jobs a month may be moving overseas. These numbers are in addition to the 2 million manufacturing jobs that moved offshore from 1983-2000. By 2015, Forrester predicts 3.3 million service jobs will have moved offshore as well.

As American jobs flee the country, so are American industries. Entire industries have been transferred overseas. I guess it's all good in your book until your son's Nuclear Reactor job moves to China where they are buying the product anyway. Then you'll say, "Wow what is with all these U.S. companies exporting our jobs?" Typical conservative who won't see any problems until they are so far down that they have to jump up to see the bottom.

[Rick Rowlands]

Tim Ryan just accused me on WKBN of being a part of an organized right wing group because I disagree with the health care proposal.  Now I supposed I am accused here of being a part of a right wing group because I want to attend the next local TEA Party.  Who has been signing me up for these groups and not telling me about it? 

Like I've said before, liberals just have to classify people.  They cannot think of people as individuals with original thoughts and ideas.