Two people calling Mayor Williams on the Dan River Show this morning mentioned a problem with a home near Wick Park. The callers alleged that someone is squatting at the house and the occupant is selling drugs. The owner of the home lives in another state. The neighbors have not been helped after calling various city departments.
Is there more to this story? If you have information, please post.
If you will recall, one of the member of this board spoke of the problem in a house in that area that they were caring for.
I hardly think that "alleged" is the proper term to use since it implies that the callers were not telling the truth. We all know that people are taking over abandoned houses for criminal activity (dog fighting and drugs) so just because it is in the Wick Park Historic district doesn't make it immune.
What angers me is the way the Mayor brushed the callers off with pathetic excuses. The fact that the callers were known to the Mayor as is their organization should result in ordering YPD to pay special attention to the house in question, but I doubt that he will until someone gets shot there.
It seems to me that this Mayor isn't interested in citizen involvement unless it benefits him.
Jay,
I heard those callers in to Rivers show as well...interestingly this scenario of drug dealers and crack heads squatting in vacant homes is a new phenomenon that has only existed for the last 3-5 years.
You would think that this conduct would have existed in Youngstown for as long as there have been vacant homes in this town. But that's not the case; this example is an indication that the profitability in low level drug dealing is becoming a process of being able to have access to cash and not necessarily making profits.
In years past, the low level drug deals made enough profits to rent a house legally turn the lights, water, cable and gas on. But now they sit in these homes afraid and in the dark. This is an act of desperation but the drug dealers.
I have been involved in this community at ground level for nearly 20 years now...that's how I know these things
Our mayor and police forces will have no effect on the crime in Youngstown no matter what they do...they just don't get it at all. I would rather just have a real good paying job and support may family, but I live here in Youngstown so I must run for mayor because our present crop of politicians just don't get it!
If the house in question does not have the utilities turned on, then the structure is in violation of a housing occupancy code.
Question
Is there an aspect of the law that would require an occupant to show ownership, rent receipts, or written permission to live in the house?
From what I understand about the law in that regard is, The occupant has possession of the property [possession is 9/10 of the law] and even if the owner on record objects to the occupant's possession of the home he may have to seek or file for a civil court eviction...Unless the owner can show or claim that the home was broken into by the occupant...it becomes almost the police officer's discretion then...and if the officer feels that there is any truth to the occupant's claim he may do nothing and just refer to owner to civil court and the housing code office.
This is a major problem that Jay tried to point out to the callers. Since the owners are absentee owners who live in Nevada, the police would have to contact them to determine if indeed the occupants were there with the owners permission, and the police argue that they have more important things to do than chase all over the country hunting down absentee landlords (property owners).
If a crime is committed and the police have the information to present to the prosecutor that they gathered, that's a whole new story.
This brings up the problem of out of state people buying up property to flip.
A week doesn't go by that there aren't two or three of these local properties listed, and in 99% of the cases these houses are in an advanced state of decay, but are selling at a lot more than they are worth to other people that have no intention of fixing them up. Most of them are in bad parts of the city riddled with crime (South Side).
These same flippers are spreading out and if they are allowed to get hold of houses in such areas as the Wick Park Historic District, you can bet that we'll soon find it in the same condition as exists on the South Side.
Jay said something that should be seriously considered ... spot imminent domain ... whereby the city can seize individual properties.
There are a couple of local historical preservation groups that these properties could be turned over to for restoration and preservation so that the city wouldn't have to go into the real estate business, and perhaps that is the answer.
This story is all too familar. Were still watching over 259 Park Avenue near Wick Park but it's a lost cause. Drive by the house, you'll see that the garage doors are ripped open exposing the inside (and a lot of antique furniture), the doors are kicked open...all of the heater ducts have been ripped out and thrown into the backyard, and the basement door has been kicked in (again) but I will never venture into a basement for fear of what I will find.
I will post it as soon as I load it but they posted a LETTER on the door of this abandoned house, saying that the owner had to do these things:
- Replace/Board up any broken windows.
- Cut grass/clean up debris in yard.
- Replace sidings/bricks/falling patches of housing.
- Paint/Replace all trim around doors and windows.
- Paint any chipped parts of the household.
Thats just a minor list of actions that needed to be done. This letter was posted a few months ago and improvement has YET to be seen. The consequence for this action, at $100.00 ticket from the city. It could double up to 500.00 if not paid by a certain date (which I'm sure wasnt).
The house is the first house ever built on Park Avenue and the district was still considered Youngstown Township. The house also housed the first Pharmacist to come to Youngstown ever. I went to the MVHS to see old pictures of it and if you could see you would be sick to your stomach.
This house will most definatly be on the demolition list in a year or two... it's hard because we can't care for the house without the owners consent but he doesn't care about the house either and refuses to get in contact about it.
I like the Wick Park revitalization idea, but I also believe that families won't move into an area because of a "nice park" they need nice neighborhoods to live in, they don't want to live next door to a crack house or a house that looks like it's in shanties. I'm all about improvement but, I would rather deal with a roudy park than a crack/whore house next door to me.
If contact info for the owners of these properties is known, then they should be posted on this forum. I would be more than happy to contact them and voice my opinions over the state in which they have let the structures decay into. Perhaps this site can organize a "phone blitz" of sorts to put the pressure on these negligent owners and the city for not adequately addressing the issue.
OK folks,
My time and resources are fully occupied with the four properties I own around
the Wick Historic District - but I did some "leg work" via telephone today, in
the interest of doing what I can to help out with this property and its current,
despicable condition.
Here's what I did and what information I have been able to gather online and
by telephone as of this afternoon:
The information below is from the Mahoning County Auditor's website. There is
now a tax lien against the property at 259 Park Avenue, from what the website shows.
SOLD TAX LIEN RETURN MAIL
OPTIMUM/CINTINA/NET RELATIONS
RETURN MAIL
YOUNGSTOWN, OH 44503 USA
Annual Tax $1,568.52
Taxes Paid $0.00
Delinquent Taxes $1,842.44
I spoke with CINTINA (the lien holder) this afternoon, and there is a total
of (Case #06CV4646) back property taxes in amt of. 2,302.05 due as
of December, 2006. According to CINTINA, the foreclosure process has
not yet begun on this property. In order to find out what OTHER lien holders
there are on this parcel, a title search would have to be done. This would
cost about $250.00.
I called Metro Land Title Agency, Inc. This afternoon. I spoke with
Leonard Schiavone and explained the situation regarding 259 Park
Avenue, and that Jaime Hughes is trying to save this place from
the wrecking ball. Leonard's family bought a large tract of land
from my Great-Grandmother in Canfield back in the 1970's to build
a country club on.
JAIME - if you are seriously interested in saving this place and
can put together a legitimate group of people, Leonard at
Metro Land Title says that you can call him at the number below
on weekdays (until 6:30 pm) and he would be WILLING to talk about
the possibility of a FREE title search (donated to your organization)
to identify any and ALL lien holders against this property.
330-744-4137
Leonard Schiavone
x205 voicemail
till 6:30
I called both the Auditor's office and the Mahoning County Treasurer this
afternoon as well. In additon, I spoke with Tito Jamal Brown (the current
Third Ward Councilman - this house is in his district) and explained the
situation, as described here on the MV Message boards. He promised me
that he would talk to the city, etc about getting the place boarded up
and secured - AGAIN............
I think that Mr. Van Sickle is probaby elderly (and ill, also) as he
cannot be reached (per Jaime Hughes). I searched the Mahoning
County Courts Public Access website today for his name, and found
the following info: (too much to list here - see the URL below)
but basically, they have tried to serve him with subpoenas [sp?]
many times and were unable to serve most of them successfully
as his forwarding address is not known.
http://courts.mahoningcountyoh.gov/pa/pa.urd/pamw2000.docket_lst?68010962
Jaime, do you think you could put together a group of folks and start a
"Save the house at 259 Park Avenue" association? May be they could
seek out donations from people who would be willing to help (financially)
to save this beautiful old house. If you go to Leonard at the title co.
with proof that you (and your group of volunteers, etc) are "really serious"
about saving this place, he probably WILL give you a title search, to
start the ball rolling.
I would like for someone to go into this house (NOT by themselves, of
course...) and photo-document the place from the attic right down to
the basement - so that I can put the photos up on my Historic Homes
and Buildings website, WHILE it still exists.
I would also like to get as much historical information as possible on
this old house - a bio on the original family that built and lived in it,
etc.
CINTINA's INFO:
Cintina: 866-530-0766
2006: Case #06CV4646 Property Taxes in amt of. 2,302.05 Dec 2006
There is also a case #CV99 that was filed in 2007 - the Treasurer's Office told me
that this is most likely a civil suit, because it begins with "CV" (ie: nOT tax related)
which means that there is probably a bank (mortgage) suing Mr Van Sickle over this
place.
ADDITIONAL AVENUES OF HELP(?)
This non-profit agency might be willing/able to help someone (or some persons)
negotiate to take ownership of this property:
Lien Forward Ohio: 330-259-1040
If a nonprofit "Save the House at 259 Park Avenue Association" is established, I would be willing to donate some money from my IRS tax rebate.
If such a non-profit were to be established, I WOULD donate some of my
own financial resources to help out as much as I am able to, given my
current situation.
I might be able to donate as much as $500.00 to the cause - IF it got up
and running, and IF there were a substantial possibility of something
actually being DONE about this place. I am only sorry that I cannot do
more to help on this one - other than donating my time to do the leg
work, etc.
The County Treasurer agent that I spoke with today said that the
University has been trying to help fix up the Wick Park Historic
District....has anyone approached Y.S.U. about a possible combined
effort to save this house? This house would make a WONDERFUL
place for YSU students - as a "Residence Hall". Each college student
could pay a set fee (like $300 a month) to live in this house, with
"all utilities included". This could include free Internet service via
a shared wireless network in the building, as well as basic (ie: local only)
telephone service and perhaps basic cable TV service. With THIRTEEN
bedrooms, the place could definitely generate enough rental revenues
to pay the huge cost of heating, etc for this house. $300 times 13
bedrooms would be just short of $4,000 a month in revenues, or
~ $48,000.00 a year in gross cash flow.
Whoever buys this place would be eligible for Historic Tax Credits,
also - because this house is undoubtedly already on the Register of
Historic Places. My apartment building, and two other properties
that I own, are already registered - I didn't have to do anything in
this regard when I purchased them. They were automatically
registered because of their age, and because they are in the Wick
Park District.
Jaime: If you are interested in starting a non-profit entity, you might
want to contact my attorney - he is the guy who incorporated me in
the State of Ohio in 2006 as "Northside Renaissance Properties, LLC".
He could probably give you advice on how to create a non-profit
entity.
His contact info is:
Attorney John Petroney
30 East McKinley Way
Poland, OH 44514
Phone: 330-758-2445
FAX: 330-757-2411
Allan
:)
I'd also be willing to help. (like Jay, I'd donate all or a portion of my "stimulus" check) I'd be happy to go with someone to photo-document the place, too.
I am 100% committed (fincially speaking as well) to this effort and I know several other who probably will be as well. A few of us have had an "off board" conversation about this today.
Anthony Kobak from City Planning offered the following:
"Mark Williams is the housing inspector assigned to this case. The City
served him (I assume he means the owner) a 30 day notice on March 14 to raze or repair. Mark
said he (again, I assume Anthony means the owner) would probably deal to get out of the house since the City has
been on him about this house."
I'm also going to speak with Jay about how legitimate/serious this "spot eminent domain" policy is and what the timeline on something like this would be/could 259 Park be an example of its use. Could an existing neighborhood organization (whom makes a viable case for fiscial and physical support) be transferred or sold the the property at a very reasonable rate? Could it be colabrative effort whereby the house serves as a various non-profit "meeting house/business headquaters" for the North Side and costs for upkeep shared ? Maybe it could be a Non-Profit Incubator, using the "idea-sharing cluster" approach? Wean Foundation Neighborhood Organizing Initiative?
We should also speak to Deb Weaver regarding her "nusiance lawsuit" strategy she's working on, as well as, her knowledge and input on the formation of a non-profit (if needed).
Bottomline: You pick and choose battles in this city. This is an important house in an important area. Wick Park is being revitilized. "Neighborhood 120" (just east of the park) is a target neighborhood under Youngstown 2010. The timining is right.
You fight this battle. We make the commitment - NOW - to reclaim and fix this house up and lead by example, show how this can be done for other key properties in the city, make the politicians exercise a little authority, and set another example of "how to" coming out of Youngstown.
As time is a factor, I'm calling for a meeting this Saturday @ 12pm on 259 Park by all interested parties to discuss in further detail. In the mean time, I'm going to meet with Mark Williams tomorrow. Let's all bring whatever information we can to the table while spreading the word about this effort and meeting.
Defend Y-Town:
Can you please send me an e-mail with the minutes of this meeting
after it is over?
My address is allany2525@yahoo.com
I wish I could attend, but I live in Maryland and won't be there to
take part - I WOULD if I could.
Thanks!
Allan
:)
I'm also unable to attend this Saturday. But I would like to help in the future.
Well Good luck everyone on trying to save this house. It is a beautiful house but it is a lost cause. It would take thousands and thousands of dollars to restore all of the damage already done. My question is, why did it to get to this point to get everyone rallied up? Before there was not a finger lifted to help and all of a sudden everyone is jumping at the bit to save this house.
I appriciate the help but there's nothing that can be done at this point. We have seen the house, spoke to realtors and talked to the city AND the owner. A few months ago this association and meetings would have been wonderful. The house has already been damaged, ransacked, ripped apart.
I have tried to get involved in Youngstown and it's revolution, but it's almost impossible because the other groups and that act as if they are kids in a "secret club" and won't let anyone else in. This is half the reason Patrons of Youngstown Arts disbanded, because it was pointless to have, there are tons of other pointless groups out there, my question is why does there have to be groups? Why cant we just be great people from Youngstown that care about our city and want to help? It was impossible for Corey and I to ever get really involved because we were just college kids, everyone we were working with were young businessmen and women or city officials, they could have cared less about us.
I mean does anyone see a problem here? There are 13,000 students on YSU's campus and very few of them are getting involved? See a pattern here?
Sometimes it's not about meetings or rallies or interviews, it's about getting your hands dirty. I could care less about the Vindicator or WFMJ jumping on this story, people from Youngstown are stubborn and I have seen this, and it's alright it makes you who you are. But, this house is unsalvagable! If you want to do something...come get your hands dirty, don't go out having meetings or making important phone calls...go over there, clean up the yard, board up the house...show that you are actually doing something.
It just makes me so mad that we have been over there for months, cleaning up day after day with this house, even when vandals just come the next day to ruin what we did, we were STILL out there redoing and fixing everything. We dealt with a slimy horrible owner and an unresponsive government but yet day in and day out we were there taking care of a house that wasn't even ours and we didn't tell anyone we were doing it. We wanted people to see that two Youngstown citizens were doing something right and not some organization for downtown.
Im just mad, you wonder why people flee Youngstown, please take a better look at the whole grand sceme of things. Youngstown is imploding and this is why everyone really wants to just get out.
Does a north side organization already exist whose mission could include the rehabilitation of homes such as the one on Park Avenue? I'm pretty sure that most people who have expressed an interest in helping financially do not even live in this north side neighborhood.
What about the NorthSide Citizens Coalition? Or Wick Neighbors? And this isn't about financial aid either, or where the people live.
Jaime, I offered to help more than once last year. But I never heard back from you.
What makes you say the house is beyond repair? Is the house structurally unsound? Have you seen the before pictures of the houses Allan is working on? If you're making this assessment based on the ripped out plumbing, wiring, and HVAC, keep in mind that much of it would probably have had to be replaced anyway.
I know Westsider, and I do appriciate you and your willingness to help. It's not really about the communities lack of assistance...it's the other groups. A year ago when we were taking care of this house the other groups almost seemed to shrug us off and now all of a sudden they want to take this all on and save this house.
The house is full of mold, mildew, there are holes in the floors and the roof is caving in. The stairs are falling in now and all of the windows are busted out. I'm making the assessment because it would cost a lot of money to replace the wiring and that, but they took hammers and ripped thru the walls, thru the floors, you would have to replace a lot more than just the wiring. You need a new roof, new windows, a new front porch since its caved in, someone would have to come in and take care of the mold/mildew, the floor needs replaced, walls need replaced, the kitchen needs to be gutted and refinished.
I love this house. I really do, but there is a house for sale right next door to it with no luck, there are many houses/rooms for rent all up and down this street. Its just not feasable to restore, your going to put thousands of thousands of dollars into this house and no one may want to live in this house or you may not get anyone to rent it.
I didn't mean to offend the MahoningValley.info community, this quarrel isn't with the community (who has been more than supportive), it's with the childish, pointless organizations. It's turning into there not about Youngstown but about how much they can get into the public eye...why can't we just be Youngstown Citizens banding together and taking care of our city? So I apologize to everyone about this.
I watched a series on This Old House where an inner city brick house which was completely gutted by fire was completely restored. When they started, they thought it was hopeless, yet when it was done it was a showpiece. This was not the first house that was in similar condition that was restored.
Since this house was in Washington D.C. Allan might be able to do a little research on the organization there that was the lead organization on these projects, and we could form one here.
Here's the link to the Washington project. http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/tv/house-project/overview/0,,1142371,00.html
Jamie:
You and I spoke about 259 Park (and was even there the day the police were called when Corey and yourself were cutting the grass - I even believe I was the one who went to the station to notify the police...although it was to no avail). I believe our discussion led to looking into what Lien Forward Ohio had to offer. Like Westsider, there was no return phone call or follow up after an initial conversation. 259 Park is 2 homes away from where I live, on the southern boundary of the park we are attempting to organize the community to revitalize, and 1 block away from "Neighborhood 120" - a "target" neighborhood under the Youngstown 2010 plan. If you think it isn't a personal issue for myself and others, you're wrong. Perhaps simply asking myself and several others what the deal is, first, would be a good idea before lashing out on message boards - considering most individuals are not 18-19yrs old and in college, bringing with that the freedoms such a scenario affords. Most of us work, have families, and many other personal obligations but contribute how we can. Some don't' even live here and still contribute. The point is: It's wise to speak to folks first before before you assume to speak on behalf of their positions. The language of division is something we can ill afford in this city.
Regarding your comments about various "groups", I'd like some specific clarification because I'm a bit confused and, quite frankly, taken aback. Actually, I'm quite confused and have a series of questions I'd like for you to clarify on behalf of others if you would be so kind. I'll extend to you the curtsey - which was not extended to me - of addressing the issues personally (by phone and/or in person) and professionally (off of a community message board). Expect a phone call after the work day is through.
As for the matter at hand, I have acquired and copied the entire file from the building inspector's office, complete with citation letters, police reports, exterior and interior photos, auditors information, etc.
Anthony Kobak and myself are going to visit the property at 3pm Thursday. Jamie, everyone: please attend if you can make it. This is a group effort.
I also have a call into Mayor Williams to speak more about the potential spot eminent domain option as well as Kirk Nogen from the new Mahoning Valley Organizing Collaborative about perhaps making 259 an example (if even salvageable at this point). Will follow up with all when I learn more. Hope to see you this week.
I just want to thank everyone for their undying support and words of kindness. Unfortunatly, my point was proved in the matter of "elite" groups in the downtown area. Remember what I said, Get your hands dirty in work, instead of worrying about meetings and politics. I have spoke to many college kids that wanted to get involved but felt like they couldn't because (as childish as this sounds), no one bothered to include them in anything going on. Once you really get involved you really see the whole grand picture. This is why Youngstown will never prosper to be beautiful like it once was. Even Hunter Morrison commented on the ungodly amount of useless organizations downtown, and that they were stepping on eachothers feet, he couldn't understand why we all couldn't just do something instead of wandering around talking to the Vindicator and holding meetings.
We were even told before that we were far to young to contribute to Youngstown and it's revolution. But honestly, I've given up on this whole saving Youngstown bit and it's not even the city that has taken a toll on me... it's everyone else.
Defend Youngstown...Is that a meeting that anyone can attend?? If so, where and when will the meeting be held? (If I missed the time and place in your posts somewhere, I apoligize)
Hi Shar:
Defend Youngstown is in the process of filing for its 501(c)3 non-profit status and will eventually have a board and monthly meetings so that all folks can attend and be apart of whatever various projects throughout the city are ongoing. The general vision for DY's mission (at least at present) will be to create an "army" of volunteers for various projects throughout the city (looking at the Wean Foundation's grant request lists as one example). The hope is that this will help aleviate some of the "How can I get involved/what can I do?" questions that so many folks have. It's one more way to get involved.
Right now, DY is basically a one man operation/movement (me) and I kind of do the postings, shirt sales, Wick Park stuff on my "free" time (in addition to grad school at night). My full time job is with the city managing events, special projects, ect in downtown. Regardless, DY currently has 1 project underway in which any and all citizens, students, leaders, etc are encourage to be part of. This is the the Wick Park project. You can learn more about it, how to get involved, watch the video of our first community meeting, ect. by visiting the following website: www.wickparkproject.blogspot.com For more on Defend Youngstown: www.DefendYoungstown.com Send me an email (DefendYoungstown@yahoo.com) and I'll add you to the mailing list. You'll receive notice on future developments, meeting times, etc as they happen.
Thanks for reaching out, Shar! Hope to see you at our next meeting.
Also: NOTICE: I will be attending a funeral Saturday morning in PA for a college friend who passed away this week. Therefore, our informal meeting will need to be moved unless someone else wants to help organize. I will get any and all info to anyone interested in doing so. Anthony Koback and I will be going up to the property today. I did speak with Krik. After all assessments are complete (working on this) I think what will be needed it to contact northside neighborhood groups who are concerned and set a meeting within the next 10 days at Wick Park pavillion. I'll use whatever contacts I have via email and see if we can't generate a meeting in said time period. Others should do the same. I'm thinking next Sat April 19th @ noon. Will keep this board updated.
QuoteAnthony Kobak and myself are going to visit the property at 3pm Thursday. Jamie, everyone: please attend if you can make it. This is a group effort.
I arrived at 3:00 p.m. and waited until 3:15 p.m. No one was there. >:(
I totally apologize Jay. Anthony and I arrived at aprox 3:15pm. We were delayed by a downtown business owner who stopped us on the way to our vehicles regarding a matter with his establishment. He needed resolution on this matter a.s.a.p. Again, I totally apologize but will completely fill you in/discuss 259 Park situation with you at Monday's Downtown Community Meeting. My cell phone number is 330.519.8712 if you want or need to discuss prior to.
There is progress being made in attempting to salvage 259 Park (and several others along the Park that are owned by Mr. VanSickle). Much yet to hash out but there have been some developments, although preliminary. Just wanted to drop a quick update. More to follow.
It good to learn that something is being done with these properties. I hope your efforts are successful.
A couple of properties owned by VanSickle are on the Mahoning County Sheriff sale list for tomorrow. One on Illimois and one on Broadway. I wonder if this house on Park will be on the Sheriff sale list this summer too??
http://www.mahoningsheriff.com/sheriffsale.html
Hey everyone...
Sorry nobody has heard from me on topics like this one, but I've been
working my butt off a couple blocks over on Woodbine Avenue. I'm sorry
I can't offer more help, BUT....
I'm willing to advocate publicly for this property via the "Bully Pulpit"
of public Internet media. My website streams mp3 audio, QuickTime and
Windows Media video.
http://www.allthingsyoungstown.net
I also have a small digital palm-corder that can transfer its tape to a Windows
PC with a cable. It has infra-red and can see in zero light conditions and I have
a small backlight that would last a while with a full charge.
I would be willing to donate use of the camera for the purposes of a video
documentary of the house - all I would ask in return is to be there when the
house is taped, to see it with my own eyes.
If the local news media doesn't want to step up to the plate and take some
interest in the fight to save places like this, then we need to take it to the
'Net with our own initiative. If there are individuals who can photograph,
video and otherwise document the fight to save these places then I can and
will volunteer more disk space on the website. This includes people's point
of view, editorial stuff, etc.
Please let me know if any of you are interested
Allan
:)
Quote from: AllanY2525 on June 09, 2009, 11:12:45 AM
Please let me know if any of you are interested
Allan, I sent you a personal message.
I'd also like to offer my photography services. I have a pretty decent camera that can take high-res photos in low-light situations if I have something to brace the camera with. (I don't have a full-sized tripod.) I can also do video, but I doubt it would be as good as Allan's camera.