Election 2010

[northside lurker]

I don't have as much of a problem with surface streets and local roads funded by local government.  Theoretically, my property taxes are paying for the road in front of my house.  Anyway, if the road in front of my house was gone, I'd get to the grocery store just like I always do--walk.

Sure he's not in office yet.  But that hasn't stopped him from proclaiming the 3C is dead, and I believe it's almost as far along as the road work described in the article. (I'm honestly not sure of the exact timeline, but I believe construction of the 3C upgrades could have started within a year)

[Rick Rowlands]

One big difference.  Public roads are an essential and proper government service, while rail certainly is not.  Let's take up the road that runs in front of your house and see how long you survive if you cannot get to the store, or to work, or anywhere for that matter.

But the man isn't even in office yet!  So all of this is premature and the article is misleading in its tone.  The article has already convicted Kasich of not acting when its too early for him to act.

[northside lurker]

Actually if you read the article you will see that this is a non issue.

Are you referring to this: "Others say the first phase of I-70/71 reconstruction might be too far along, anyway, for the incoming administration to change."?  If so, then Kasich should save ODOT $1.34 billion, and cancel the rest of the project since there is still time.

If he were so inclined, he could keep the $400 million from the feds, and use that $1.34 billion he saved to run the 3C train for the next 67 years.

His decision to cancel or keep the rest of this highway project will tell us whether his decision to cancel the 3C rail project was simply political or not.  I will certainly have more respect for him if he also cancels the rest of this highway project; it will show that he is true to the principles he was elected on.

[Rick Rowlands]

Actually if you read the article you will see that this is a non issue.

[northside lurker]

Sorry to beat a dead horse, but apparently, ODOT and Gov.-elect Kasich have no problem spending $1.6 billion for highway improvements in Columbus.
http://www.dispatchpolitics.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2010/11/13/copy/new-leadership-unlikely-to-halt-i-7071-project.html?adsec=politics&sid=101

[northside lurker]

Absolutely!  If we're privatizing roads, not only would your federal and state income tax decrease a little, but the fuel tax should go away and registration fees, etc. would also go down.

I don't know if there would be enough of a reduction in taxes to make people OK with paying tolls, (maybe there would, I really do not know) but that's how socialism works.  The tax burden is spread around to everyone so that the cost is easier to swallow.

[Rick Rowlands]

One the eve of turning over interstate highways into toll roads, would there be an immediate and quantifiable reduction in taxes so that us taxpayers don't feel as though we've just been socked with another tax?

[northside lurker]

How do you privatize a road?  Please explain this concept.  Are you talking all roads, or just interstate highways? 

I haven't given privatization much thought; it just seems like a solution to why privately run trains don't exist.  So, I guess I'd propose turning all interstates into toll roads, since they seem to be the biggest drain on ODOT's budget.

[Rick Rowlands]

How do you privatize a road?  Please explain this concept.  Are you talking all roads, or just interstate highways? 

[northside lurker]

Roads benefit EVERYONE. The trains are like the busses which for some reason you consider to be the same as roads.


BTW, just last night I saw a full sized WRTA bus in Austintown. Since it was dark out I could easily see the ONE single passenger that whose ride I was subsidizing..

Because it was dark, that tells me it was probably the last bus.  Why would lots of people be going to Austintown, if they weren't headed home?  If they weren't headed home, they would be stranded.  Or, if the bus was headed east, that bus had already taken most of its passengers to their destination, and that single person was probably going home from WalMart, or some other place along the way.

BTW, I know there are plenty of people out on the interstate right now whose drive I'm subsidizing.
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This is only semi-related, but those in favor of limited government might find it interesting.  "Why Sprawl is a Conservative Issue" http://www.walkablestreets.com/conservative.htm  It seems to me that Government started subsidizing roads because they couldn't compete with other forms of transportation.  But, they did their job too well, and now other forms of transportation can't compete with roads.  That's why I say: either privatize the roads and level the playing field, or subsidize (proportionally) other forms of transportation, too.

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I'm sorry I've pulled this thread so far off-topic.  I just see this rail issue as a mistake by Kasich, and a sign of where we might be headed.  Otherwise, I don't have an opinion either way, and I'm curious to see what he can do.

[Oldmill]

Rick, I started with Conrail/CSX in 1976 in the track department so you know what I mean . after all those years doing grunt work my body is shot, been disabled since December of last year . Its nice to be home .

[Rick Rowlands]

I worked for CSX as a conductor and engineer for four years.  After I left the railroad in 2004 my interest in trains had practically disappeared.  Only recently with the donation of "fleet" of three locomotives has my interest in railroading started to return. But I don't think I'll ever have the same passion for the rails that I once had.  Working T&E service on a class 1 railroad is brutal.

[Oldmill]

Oh BTW, I am a railfan, so I would love to see passenger trains running through Youngstown again.  So I have nothing against trains per se.

Hey Rick , I have a cure for being a railfan , Work for a railroad for 30 + years . You wont want to ever see another train again  hahahaha 

[Rick Rowlands]

Oh BTW, I am a railfan, so I would love to see passenger trains running through Youngstown again.  So I have nothing against trains per se.

[Rick Rowlands]

No.  They are not the same.  Railroads are private corporations. They purchased their own right of way, built their own tracks and equipment, maintain same, and on top of it all pay taxes on that.  And then government wants to impose its will upon the railroads, force them to provide space for passenger trains, but not paying the railroads what that track time is worth. 

Even if this passenger rail network is accessible to 75% of Ohioans, it still requires an auto trip to the train station, then another auto trip from the train station to final destination.  It doesn't work at all if you need to go to the corner store, or want to go from Youngstown to the Rogers Sale on Fridays.  But that ODOT road money does pave the roads between Youngstown and Rogers.  Most trips are not long commutes between large cities but are little trips within 25 miles of home. 

This is a bigger issue than the utility of passenger rail.  Its about the government being broke.  But some people refuse to acknowledge any limitation in that department.  I don't know where you think this money comes from.  You may be surprised to learn that it is not infinite! The people who live outside the city limits have just sent a loud message that we are finished throwing our money at projects that are of marginal benefit.   These marginal public works projects are being canceled all over the US.  Chris Christie canceled the tunnel project, Kasich will cancel the 3C corridor. We won't continue to pay for stuff that does not benefit us while the basic services that we need, ROADS, infrastructure, police and fire protection, are woefully inadequate.  The good times are over.