Election 2010

[Why?Town]

Roads benefit EVERYONE. The trains are like the busses which for some reason you consider to be the same as roads.


BTW, just last night I saw a full sized WRTA bus in Austintown. Since it was dark out I could easily see the ONE single passenger that whose ride I was subsidizing..

[northside lurker]

Roads and infrastructure is one of the few things that government does that benefits all citizens, and is one of the core reasons why government exists.  I will never complain about government expenses in maintaining roads.  There are some on the right who say the roads should be privatized, they are completely full of it.   THe $475 million will be spread to the four corners of the state, but if you don't live in the 3C corridor you will get no benefit from high speed rail. 

I am sure they claim it will cost $20 million a year to operate, but when has any government estimate come in at or under that cost?  Its always higher.  Heck if one of their trainsets gets into a grade crossing accident with a semi truck that could easily cost $10 to $20 million.

About 7 million people live in the 3C corridor.  I don't know all of the details, but the Cleveland-Youngstown-Pittsburgh line would have been part of the next step.  I'd guess that, after step 2 was completed, about 75-80% of all Ohioans would be connected.

The experts don't claim it will cost $20 million, the conservatives have rounded the number up from $17 million.

I guess I'm done arguing about this because you are holding these two forms of transportation infrastructure to two different standards, when they should (IMO) be held to the same standard.

[Rick Rowlands]

Roads and infrastructure is one of the few things that government does that benefits all citizens, and is one of the core reasons why government exists.  I will never complain about government expenses in maintaining roads.  There are some on the right who say the roads should be privatized, they are completely full of it.   THe $475 million will be spread to the four corners of the state, but if you don't live in the 3C corridor you will get no benefit from high speed rail. 

I am sure they claim it will cost $20 million a year to operate, but when has any government estimate come in at or under that cost?  Its always higher.  Heck if one of their trainsets gets into a grade crossing accident with a semi truck that could easily cost $10 to $20 million.

[northside lurker]

Well the money may be in place to BUILD the rail system, but the state will have to pay to OPERATE it, and that money is not in place.  Killing the 3C corridor was a wise move for now.  Come on, if we can't agree on cutting this fringe project to save the whole state, then you just don't care if the state goes bankrupt.

That's certainly a valid concern.  But the most conservative estimate I've seen stated that it would cost about $20 million per year to operate.

This is what I find most frustrating.  ODOT spends an extra $475 million for roads and highways, on top of the other billion dollars they spend above what they bring in from user fees, and no one seems to care. (one might even say that, as the gov't subsidy from non-user fees approaches $2 billion, these people feel "entitled" to subsidized roads and highways... )  But as soon as someone proposes spending an extra $20 million per year on an alternate form of transportation, there is suddenly a problem.

[irishbobcat]

Glenn Beck is a poser and a loser.....

[Rick Rowlands]

OK enough of this partisan bickering.  Here is something that will lighten your day. (ok well maybe for some of you it will be funny).

http://www.therightscoop.com/glenn-beck-happy-days-are-here-again

[Rick Rowlands]

Well the money may be in place to BUILD the rail system, but the state will have to pay to OPERATE it, and that money is not in place.  Killing the 3C corridor was a wise move for now.  Come on, if we can't agree on cutting this fringe project to save the whole state, then you just don't care if the state goes bankrupt.

[northside lurker]

How many Forum members attended the Ohio Department of Transportation's workshop in Youngstown last evening?

mahoningvalley.info/forum/index.php?topic=9228.0

It's something I would have been interested in, but I couldn't go.

[Youngstownshrimp]

Start reading global business news, you are intentionally being confused to believe that we have money for this and for that.  Global money does not work like that, what promises we are getting from all our governments is all subject to the creditors approval and funding.

Now honestly ask yourselves, why has not all of the stimulus money been spent?  Because our creditors are pulling back from funding our entitled asses.  We use their money to pay our interest and also ask for additional debt to pay the entitled party.  Global money is not stupid, someone in China is looking at the Rail system and laughing, saying "and how are they going to pay us back for this ?" 

If you really want the rail, as we say in business, bring CSX, Norfolk Southern, etc. to the table with some investment capital.

[jay]

How many Forum members attended the Ohio Department of Transportation's workshop in Youngstown last evening?

mahoningvalley.info/forum/index.php?topic=9228.0

[northside lurker]

The highway system mostly built under Eisenhower was during a time when we were at our peak economically.  Forget the rail system, we need to start making our own clothes again.  As a boy in Asia when my father was fighting for free enterprise in Vietnam, there was a rice shortage so we all just started eating bread.  "We can't afford rice [rail] folks."

Sure we can.

- First, the money is there.  Since Ohio isn't spending the money, it will just go to other states to improve their passenger rail systems.  I know, to the Republicans, it's about ideology at this point, but is that productive?

- Second, I've read that ODOT will be spending an additional $471 million in highway spending this year that they didn't spend last year, and they don't know where the money will come from yet.  If times are so tough, maybe we shouldn't be expanding highway spending either?

[Youngstownshrimp]

The highway system mostly built under Eisenhower was during a time when we were at our peak economically.  Forget the rail system, we need to start making our own clothes again.  As a boy in Asia when my father was fighting for free enterprise in Vietnam, there was a rice shortage so we all just started eating bread.  "We can't afford rice folks."

[northside lurker]

Construction of a roadway is one of the core functions of government.  It is a public utility required by all citizens in order to survive and function.   Can't say the same about passenger rail in that corridor.  It is a luxury that we simply cannot afford right now.

Construction of the interstate highway system was just as "unconstitutional" as universal health care.  They created a loophole by adding "defense" to the title of the act that outlined its construction.

[Rick Rowlands]

Construction of a roadway is one of the core functions of government.  It is a public utility required by all citizens in order to survive and function.   Can't say the same about passenger rail in that corridor.  It is a luxury that we simply cannot afford right now.

[northside lurker]

We paid for those highways through our road and gasoline taxes,

Yes, partly. http://mahoningvalley.info/forum/index.php?topic=7575.0

the government didn't give them to us. We have just decided through our vote for Kascich that we don't want to pay for passenger rail, that most of us won't use.

And one could argue that, as other states with high population densities--like Ohio--invest in passenger rail, Ohio will be left even further behind.