Single-payer health care

[iwasthere]

RR, your conservative pals from the past ideals caused the little steel strike the massacre on innocent women and children and working men that wanted a fair wage for their daily work. your conservatives views made it legal for the ford's and the Vanderbilt's' ect...... to use the state military to quell strikes at their corporations that left on their hands blood. if fdr did not legalize unions, this country would truly have a red scare in this country. maybe the reasons are that you cannot read/understand my posts is because you lack a liberal college education. your post suggests that ind(s) are what they are due to their lot in life and they belong in their social status because of their choices. yes and no. i do believe in helping people that are not arrogant such as the conservatives on this forum. you complained on other post that i attack your person. RR, you have attacked me and others on this forum in other posts of other natures. i never complained but you did. if you cannot take criticism do not dish it out.

[irishbobcat]

yada yada yada, ....same old conservative lies and distortions, and inequalities proudly on display and parades as All-American values......yuck....

[Rick Rowlands]

I don't know where you get your notions about conservatives,  but they certainly don't come from any conservative philosophy.

I do not believe Archie Bunker is a saint.  I have never watched that show.  So you're wrong on your first point.

Conservatives do not want the poor to get poorer.  We wish that everyone would elevate their positions in life.  But we believe that it is UP TO THE INDIVIDUAL to do that themselves.  They have the ability but do they have the will? 

On the Titanic, it was the women and children who were saved, the rich "conservative" men such as John Jacob Astor and George D. Wick, founder of YS&T died.  Is all of your history this faulty? Wrong on your second point.

Conservatives do not judge people based upon their race or social status, we judge them by their abilities.  It is the liberals such as yourself who continue to bring up race and class, such as you are doing now.  You are trying to perpetuate this so called "class warfare" in this very post.  If your liberal teachings abhorr that then why do you continue to perpetuate it?

Its time for you to take the first step toward true equality.  In the future do not discuss a person's class status or race, and treat everyone as equals.  The wealthiest American citizen should have the same rights, priveleges and responsibilities as the poorest person. 

[irishbobcat]

Conservatiives creates Class warfare and racism. Every conservative on this forum believes Archie Bunker is a saint. Conservatives are wanting to take us back to the Gilded Age...the richer get richer, the poor get poorer......

Watch the movie Titantic....the Conservatives got on the lifeboats, the poor got locked downstairs and went down with the ship.......

First class, second class, third class, etc.....that's what conservatives want to take America back too......

[Rick Rowlands]

iwasthere, I wish I could understand fully what you were trying to say to me in your last post, but unfortunately I cannot.  You underestimate the philanthropy of what you call the "top ten percent" in this valley.  That segment of the population has made many things happen that otherwise would not have. 

I do not believe in class warfare and do not pay any attention to the social status of a contributor.  I am sorry that you must look at life as a rich vs. poor.  I am also sorry that you cannot grasp the concepts of self determination, rugged individualism and optimism that are halmarks of true conservative philosophy.  Its still not too late to come over into the light and leave the darkness of self made despair, class warfare and racism behind.  A conservative believes that everyone has an equal opportunity to make the best they can out of life, that freed of the shackles of government oppression the sky is the limit on what can be accomplished.  When you are ready I will help you to help yourself.

[Towntalk]

THE CHART PELOSI DOESN'T WANT YOU TO SEE!

http://docs.house.gov/gopleader/House-Democrats-Health-Plan.pdf

[Towntalk]

Details:

No health care vote before August break, top Democrat says

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/07/23/health.care/index.html

[Towntalk]

JUST IN:

The Senate will not vote on health care legislation before
leaving for its summer recess on Aug. 8, Senator Harry Reid
of Nevada, the majority leader, said on Thursday, finally
acknowledging publicly the inescapable political reality that
has been clear for several days.

[iwasthere]

rr, if this ind that i dropped off the begging letter comes through with monies with your project. i wonder what you would do? take or refuse? you sank over 100 k i wonder how many dollar bills came from rich people or working class people that believed in your project? the biggest contributors to social causes comes from the middle working class not the top ten percent rich people in this country. i wonder why the middle class believes in social causes faster then the the top ten percent rich class does in donating to charity? you pick and choose who you help, i do not pick and choose. you weigh out the cause and effect of your donation before you give. i say i much do you need for your cause? and how can i help you cause? like i said before i wish you luck in your project but i will not give  you a single dime to your cause due to your republican selfish ways.

[sfc_oliver]

Dan that is all I have seen from this congress and Administration, one big power grab. We have seen an unprecedented growth in the size of the Government and we are not getting any returns for it. I believe with 32 Czars and counting we are headed for Big brother.

It's not about health care, or global warming, or the banks failing, it's all about control.

God I hope I'm wrong.

[Dan Moadus]

You would have thought that, if having all these uninsured people is such a crisis that we have to do something "right now", some of that trillion dollar stimulus bill could have been used to purchase health insurance for people who can't afford it. I mean we gave about a hundred billion to one big insurance company anyhow. Why not spread it around to a bunch of companies to insure these people?

The truth is that is not about health care, it is about power and control. With all the money being spent, covering the uninsured would be a drop in the bucket.

[Towntalk]

The Health Care Sausage

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/23/opinion/23collins.html?_r=1&hpw

Transcript: Obama's Fifth News Conference

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/22/us/politics/22obama.transcript.html?ref=politics&pagewanted=all

"If we don't act, 14,000 Americans will continue to lose their health insurance every single day. These are the consequences of inaction. These are the stakes of the debate that we're having right now." Obama

Experts Dispute Some Points in Health Talk

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/23/health/policy/23facts.html?hp

Democrats Block GOP Health Care Mailing
http://www.rollcall.com/issues/55_12/news/37125-1.html?type=printer_friendly

Democrats exempt themselves from own 'reform'

If  government -run health care is such a great idea, why won't members of Congress enroll their own families?

At Page 114 of the act specifically exempts members of Congress from the public plan.

[Rick Rowlands]

I believe in people helping themselves, but I do not believe in forcibly taking what some people have earned to give to others.  All of my posts are based upon the premise that if people are give opportunities to succeed in life that they will do so.  I see the government as an entity that puts people down and tries to keep them from reaching their full potential.  Since you brought up my museum project let me just say that in the fourteen years of working on it I've raised over 100k, and not a penny of that has been from the government.  In fact the government has stood in my way as it took over 8 months to get a building permit due to being told misinformation by city employees.  I will not take government money for this project because I feel that those who want to see it succeed will contribute, but I have no right in demanding that the government strongarm people like you and take your money by force to give to my organization. 

I've never been wealthy and I've never had a lot.  I'm a high school graduate and have only worked blue collar jobs. In many ways I fit the description of downtrodden.  However I do not think of myself as such.  How can someone who lives in an economically depressed area with high unemployment and no higher education not only get by but also have the time and resources to devote to creating a museum of Youngstown's industrial heritage?  Its all in one's attitude.  I do not look to government to solve my problems as many others do, I find my own solutions to problems that I encounter.  If many others did the same then there would not be such a drain on our governemnt to provide everything to everyone.  There are still many opportunities for people in this country, but I seem them quickly eroding away and being replaced with guaranteed mediocrity by the government.

Its curious how you state that I do not believe in helping others out.  That is completely untrue.  I do help others out and always have.  I provide help on a one on one basis, which is how it should be.  There used to be a homeless man who lived over by the museum.  He would come down and keep me company and I would do what I could to help him with some money and food and whatever.  Last I heard he now has a job, an apartment, car and is engaged to be married.  I was the only person who saw him as a friend and didn't try to take advantage of him.  There have been other times when I have helped out neighbors, I've used my equipment to load machines for people at auctions, and stopped to assist stranded motorists.  That is how one truly helps others in need.  Not by insisting that the government take my tax money, waste most of it and then trickle the rest out to others providing so called "help".

Why do you think that I am working on this museum project?  Because I am greedy and don't give a damn about others?  On the contrary, I am doing this to show the people of the valley that this area was once a manufacturing powerhouse and that we had the ability to do so much when we relied upon our own brains, brawn and initiative to get things done.  So many people in the valley know this place as nothing but a repository of despair, and have never known anything else. If I can save some of the things that we made here and drive home the point that the Mahoning Valley people can do whatever they want if they set their mind to it then perhaps I can contribute a tiny bit toward turning the valley around. 

So you and I will continue to have our differences of opinion.  I will always believe that people can do for themselves, and you will believe that people always need a handout.  Thats the basic philosophical difference between liberals and conservatives.

[sfc_oliver]

About 38% of the uninsured live in households with incomes of $50,000 or more.

According to the Census Bureau, nearly 36 million of the uninsured are legal U.S citizens. Another 9.7 million are non-citizens, but the Census Bureau does not distinguish in its estimate between legal non-citizens and illegal immigrants.

It has been estimated that almost one quarter is eligible for public coverage, and the remaining need financial assistance

According to these figures do we want to destroy our health care system and start over for less than 10% of our population?

There has to be a better way. Again Mr Obama, SLOW DOWN.

[iwasthere]

rr by your comments on this board you do not believe in helping anyone out  but i know someone that is trying help you on your behalf for a donation by writing a letter concerning your rr museum. this person wrote a letter to an ind that has help many ind(s) with their dreams. i know this because i dropped this BEGGING LETTER off myself to this ind. i did this not on your behalf but on the behalf of my friend due to the fact we enjoy helping people that are in a pinch or we believe in their goals or dreams. i believe in what you are trying to do with preserving our rr history but your attitude towards helping the downtrodden in this country SUCKS that is the reason why i do not care if your adventure succeeds or fails due to your spoiled republican upbringing attitude. rr remember their are people have their ears to the ground and i am one of them. i do not mind helping out the downtrodden because i am a true socialist at heart not a capitalist pig that will trample on anyone while trying to obtain their selfish goals. i do not mind paying extra taxes for health-care and social programs as long as it fair and honest on both sides the giver and the taker. i hope you never need health assistance from the general public because i will never go to any of your fundraisers to pay your medical bills due the fact you do not have any health-care benefits at your job.