Americans WANT Health Care Reform!!!!!

[Towntalk]

And what does that have to do with health care?

And why are you so hesitent to back your contention up with settled law?

Mind you, I'm not and I repeat, am not a conservative Republican, but a FDR/Harry Truman DEMOCRAT, and if you will recall, it was FDR who was responsable for Social Security.

[irishbobcat]

Unlike Sarah Palin, I can cite a Nasty Conservative Supreme Court Decision that ruined this country....

Gore v. Bush, 2000

[Towntalk]

Please to show us settled law to support your contention. Cases that have gone through our courts, or are all our courts nasty conservatives?

Show us Supreme Court decisions since this is the court that deals with Constitutional questions.

[irishbobcat]

Funny how some people living off a government pension distrusts the same government so much.......

I am not dead wrong. Healthcare is a right, can be "legally" recognized as a right under the Constitution, and the neo-cons who say it's not in the Constitution are the ones that are dead wrong....

[Towntalk]

Remember when Congress passed laws creating HMO's?

The Health Maintenance Organization Act of 1973

[sfc_oliver]

Seems as though most everyone agrees that congress has the power to vote for Universal Health care. Though that does not make it a "right" until they do so.

SO the next question is, do we accept what ever plan this congress comes up with, without question?

Do they have any clue how to fund whatever plan they come up with?

Will they actually read and debate any such plan?

And with all the horror stories from the current Government run health care systems (Medicare, Medicaid, VA, TRICARE, Etc, Etc...) Do we trust them with everyones health care.

Then another question; How many jobs in the insurance business will disappear? 10,000 maybe 20,000 possibly 50,000 or even more?

Plenty of questions and very few details so far from Washington.

[Towntalk]

You are dead wrong Dennis. The first citation is from FindLaw.com and the second from Emory Law School.

NEITHER ARE CONSERVATIVE!!!!!!

FindLaw.com is a legal reporting service that you can easily access provided you take the time to do it.

Emory University is LIBERAL.

NO ONE IS CHALLANGING THE FACT THAT CONGRESS CAN WITHIN ITS CONSTITUTIONAL AUTHORITY IS DOING JUST THAT AND I RECENTLY POSTED THAT LEGISLATION IS EVEN NOW IN THE PIPELINE IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES OR DIDN'Y YOU TAKE THE TIME TO READ IT.

H.R. 676, "The United States National Health Care Act,"
Or "Expanded & Improved Medicare For All"
Introduced by Rep.  John Conyers, Jr.

http://conyers.house.gov/index.cfm?FuseAction=Issues.Home&Issue_id=063b74a4-19b9-b4b1-126b-f67f60e05f8c

[irishbobcat]

towntalk,You stated the very narrow view, and at times in this country's history the Constitution has taken on a broader view.

Still, Congress can tax for Universal Health Care for the General Welfare.

If some of you would quit reading the lies the conservatives and the HMO's are telling you about Universal Health Care, we could have this system already in place.

And when it comes into place, you conservatives will be the first in line to make sure you get your full coverage.

[sfc_oliver]

Very good Towntalk, Now we shall have to see what this congress does with it. Hopefully they will take their time and actually read whatever they decide to vote on for a change.

[Towntalk]

Preamble
Article Text | Annotations
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
 
Annotations
PURPOSE AND EFFECT OF THE PREAMBLE
Although the preamble is not a source of power for any department of the Federal Government, 1 the Supreme Court has often referred to it as evidence of the origin, scope, and purpose of the Constitution. 2 ''Its true office,'' wrote Joseph Story in his COMMENTARIES, ''is to expound the nature and extent and application of the powers actually conferred by the Constitution, and not substantively to create them. For example, the preamble declares one object to be, 'to provide for the common defense.' No one can doubt that this does not enlarge the powers of Congress to pass any measures which they deem useful for the common defense. But suppose the terms of a given power admit of two constructions, the one more restrictive, the other more liberal, and each of them is consistent with the words, but is, and ought to be, governed by the intent of the power; if one could promote and the other defeat the common defense, ought not the former, upon the soundest principles of interpretation, to be adopted?'' 3 
Footnotes
1 Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11, 22 (1905).
2 E.g., the Court has read the preamble as bearing witness to the fact that the Constitution emanated from the people and was not the act of sovereign and independent States, McCulloch v. Maryland, 17 U.S. (4 Wheat.) 316, 403 (1819) Chisholm v. Georgia, 2 U.S. (2 Dall.) 419, 471 (1793); Martin v. Hunter's Lessee, 14 U.S. (1 Wheat.) 304, 324 (1816), and that it was made for, and is binding only in, the United States of America. Downes v. Bidwell, 182 U.S. 244, 251 (1901); In re Ross, 140 U.S. 453, 464 (1891).
3 1 J. Story, Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States (Boston: 1833), 462. For a lengthy exegesis of the preamble phrase by phrase, see M. Adler & W. Gorman, The American Testament (New York: 1975), 63-118
A General Welfare clause is a section that appears in many constitutions, and in some cases in charters and statutes, which provides that the body empowered by the document may enact laws as it sees fit to promote the well-being of the people governed thereunder. Such clauses are generally interpreted as granting the state a power to regulate for the general welfare that is independent of other powers specified in the governing document.
The United States Constitution contains two references to "the General Welfare", one occurring in the Preamble and the other in the Taxing and Spending Clause. However, it is only the latter that is referred to as the "General Welfare Clause" of this document. Unlike most General Welfare clauses, however, the clause in the U.S. Constitution has been interpreted as a limitation on the power of the United States Congress to use its powers of taxing and spending. The narrow construction of the General welfare clause is unusual when compared to similar clauses in most State constitutions, and many constitutions of other countries. An international example is provided by a report from the Supreme Court of Argentina:
"   In Ferrocarril Central Argentino c/Provincia de Santa Fe, 569 the Argentine Court held that the General Welfare clause of the Argentine Constitution offered the federal government a general source of authority for legislation affecting the provinces. The Court recognized that the United States utilized the clause only as a source of authority for federal taxation and spending, not for general legislation, but recognized differences in the two constitutions.[1]   "
Similarly, the general welfare provision of the Articles of Confederation which preceded the United States Constitution are expressly read as providing that government with a power to enact laws:
"   Article III. The said States hereby severally enter into a firm league of friendship with each other, for their common defense, the security of their liberties, and their mutual and general welfare, binding themselves to assist each other, against all force offered to, or attacks made upon them, or any of them, on account of religion, sovereignty, trade, or any other pretense whatever.

[irishbobcat]

Again...."Provide for the GENERAL WELFARE of the United States..."

The general welfare means the well-being and caring of it's citizens.....

thus, The Federal Government shall do so and be "UNIFORM THROUGHOUT THE UNITED STATES."

The Constitution is a flexible work of law. Did they teach you that?

[ytowner]

This is what I learned in my business law class down at YSU: There are 24 enumerated powers granted to the Federal Government. All powers not granted to the Federal Government are thereby granted to the State Government. Here they are, please post where it says UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE!

   

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

        * To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
        * To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;
        * To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States;
        * To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;
        * To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States;
        * To establish post offices and post roads;
        * To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;
        * To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;
        * To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;
        * To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;
        * To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;
        * To provide and maintain a navy;
        * To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;
        * To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;
        * To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
        * To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles (16 km) square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings.

[Towntalk]

Report Urges U.S. to Slow Health-Care Spending

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/02/AR2009060201491.html?hpid=moreheadlines

[iwasthere]

i though living on the ytown southside was exploding with bullets but the national healthcare topic is more explosive on this board.

[sfc_oliver]

Why the hell is this man attacking me with his posts? I'll wage another war if thats what you want. Against every stupid post you make. Now drop it or bring it, your choice.