Park Avenue Home

[AllanY2525]

I never said I advocated for the salvation of every vacant home or building
in the City of Youngstown.

I DID, howevever, SPECIFICALLY say that "strategic, targeted" properties, which
have SIGNIFICANT historical, cultural, and economic value, should be saved.
In areas like Wick Park, these old houses are one of things that MAKE real estate
values better.

No, don't save the "cookie cutter" mill-rat style houses, which are a dime a
dozen, literally scattered throughout the entire city, and have no significant
historical or architectural value whatsoever...

The houses in the Wick Historic District are ONE OF A KIND, and IRREPLACEABLE
once gone... and I'd trade them any day for the new pre-fab housing that,  although more energy efficient, will cost you DEARLY in the long run, due to the inferior building materials, poor design, and poor quality of build go into them.

I dare ANYONE to tell me that a new house the size of that mansion, with energy
efficient heating, etc, could be built as strong as that house was, with the same
high quality materials, expert craftsmanship, etc - FOR LESS THAN IT WOULD HAVE COST TO FIX THE PLACE - and actually CONVINCE me that it was true.

I've seen some of the new houses that have been built in the city, LITERALLY
coming apart because they are just not built properly, built with substandard
materials, etc - NOT because of any abuse or neglect.

Having to fix sagging floors, failing rooftops, replace doors and windows that
are two and three years old and already in need of repairs, etc is NOT a good
trade off for a lower gas bill - in the long run these repairs will FAR outweigh
any savings in energy, and they are EXPENSIVE for the average home owner
to have to repair.  These new houses will NEVER last as long as the old ones
did, nor will they ever hope to remain as relatively trouble-free for anywhere
NEAR as long.

yeah, I had to pour $80,000 into the house on Woodbine - BUT - the old girl
IS over 100 years old, and with the repairs done properly, she will STILL outlast
a new home, and STILL cost less to fix than what it  would have cost to bulldoze
her and put up a new home on the same lot... and she IS energy efficient now,
HAS new wiring, HAS new plumbing, a new roof, blah blah blah...I won't have to
replace ANY of her major components again in MY lifetime, certainly not anything
structural, either.  And with the number and size of the rooms in this house, it
will pay back EVERY PENNY I have invested in her - via the rent money that a
six bedroom, three and a half bathroom house can generate... try doing that
with a shoe-box sized, 2 or three bedroom, plywood and cardboard house that
could NEVER withstand the kind of abuse that college kids can inflict.

The beautiful old homes in the Wick Historic District ARE such properties... and
never did I say that the city should rehabilitate them, ONLY  prevent them from
becoming stripped, vandalized, etc - to the point where there are NO LONGER
of any value, whatsoever - thereby making it necessary for the city to PAY
TO DEMOLISH THEM ANYWAYS!

$500 for a simple, stamped-steel plate to cover a window?  I think not.
Panels just like these could be fabricated at any one of several fabricating
plants in the Youngstown area... at a cost FAR less than $500 each - they are,
after all, just a piece of stamped steel - they're not made of platinum.

The city is ALREADY using this very same panel at Westlake Terrace, so they
have ALREADY BOUGHT AND PAID FOR SOME OF THESE ANYWAY

As far as being energy-inefficient, there are ways to address this without
breaking the bank.

The Park Ave mansion had THIRTEEN bedrooms, rent them out for $300 a
month and you'd be bringing in just shy of 4 grand a month - with this kind of
money coming in, something could easily be done about energy efficiency...

Lets say, something REALLY radical - like FIBERGLASS INSULATION

Steam heating systems that are the "two pipe" type of system, CAN be converted
into circulating hot water heating systems, and can be done in a cost effective
manner that uses all of the existing pipes and radiators and merely makes them
more energy efficient, etc - without having to tear the place apart in doing so.

Houses with that kind of surface area, could have solar panels installed to work
WITH a hot water heating system, to even FURTHER reduce the heating bills -
again, without tearing apart the house.

The house was a stone house, other than the roof, and a little wooden trim
(which could be encapsulated in vinyl, rendering it maintenance free, basically)]
the only other sore spot would be the windows... there are solutions for that, too
which, once installed, would last nearly a lifetime.

The list goes on....

[rusty river]

Rusty -


THANK YOU FOR DOING THAT! 

You're welcome 

[rusty river]

So what is the end game here?  What would the City of Youngstown do with multitudes of abandoned housing under its care?  These homes are still energy inefficient structures probably with substandard heating and electrical systems, with roofs that will need replacing either immediately or at some future date.  Their yards will need to be maintained as well.  Add this to the likely $500 cost per window panel and you've saddled the City with tens of thousands of dollars of additional costs to save houses that nobody will ever live in again. 

The correct course of action is to continue demolishing this housing until a state of equilibrium is reached.  At some point the number of available houses will equal the demand for houses, and then the value of those remaining houses will begin to rise.  This strategy also clears vast amounts of land for future development.  Whereas small lot sizes with houses placed close to the street was a model for early 20th century city planners, today's planners prefer larger lots with greater setbacks.

The city is way ahead of you rick. Ever hear of the 2010 plan? If a house is beyond reasonable repair or is structurally unsound and has been vacant for a long period of time, it gets knocked down. Period. (unless it's a historical structure in a historical setting, such as Park Ave.) The shrinking city and right-sizing concept is not feasible unless the city has control over the property. Every demolition notice sent to the property owners now has an option for the owner to donate the property to the city's landbank, assuming that all liens and encumbrances can be dealt with by the city. The demolition fees are waived for the owner (for the most part, the city's current demolition budget is coming from federal grants, so this doesn't place an undue burden on the general fund). If the property is in a viable neighborhood, usually the adjacent property owners are given the option to purchase it for a steep discount. If it is not in a viable neighborhood, the idea is that eventually the city will be able to enact its right-sizing strategy and return the land to a natural state or usable green space (conservation areas, parks/recreation, community gardens, etc).

And westsider is correct in pointing out what today's planners prefer. The movement is towards more dense, pedestrian scale mixed use neighborhoods with smaller setbacks,  rather than the unsustainable sprawl as exhibited by suburbs and exurbs. Case-in-point: Youngstown 2010.

Rusty River, I would imagine that your suggestion to City Hall would have had more impact had it been accompanied with a check of sufficient size to purchase enough of these panels to cover several houses, or lines on funding to pay for the project.   As I have found with my project, there is never a shortage of people with "good" ideas, but those ideas rarely are backed up with the resources, manpower or money to carry them out.

The cost of these "shields" can be attached to the property through liens, just as the costs for plywood already are. With the city's new landlord registration program almost ready to be implemented, this presents another method of accountability for vacant property and recouping any costs that the city might incur by securing them.

[northside lurker]

So what is the end game here?  What would the City of Youngstown do with multitudes of abandoned housing under its care?  These homes are still energy inefficient structures probably with substandard heating and electrical systems, with roofs that will need replacing either immediately or at some future date.  Their yards will need to be maintained as well.  Add this to the likely $500 cost per window panel and you've saddled the City with tens of thousands of dollars of additional costs to save houses that nobody will ever live in again. 

The correct course of action is to continue demolishing this housing until a state of equilibrium is reached.  At some point the number of available houses will equal the demand for houses, and then the value of those remaining houses will begin to rise.  This strategy also clears vast amounts of land for future development.  Whereas small lot sizes with houses placed close to the street was a model for early 20th century city planners, today's planners prefer larger lots with greater setbacks. 

I might agree with you Rick, that Youngstown shouldn't take on the cost and liability of acquiring these houses, except that I believe Allan is writing specifically about the houses around Wick Park, and the neighborhoods immediately surrounding it.

I'm not sure if there are any other neighborhoods in Youngstown that are like those neighborhoods surrounding Wick Park.  The housing stock in this neighborhood is what gives it its value.  The Tremont and Ohio City neighborhoods in Cleveland are two of the most desirable neighborhoods for young professionals (i.e. hipsters) because of their housing stock.  Not because they were leveled and had lots of new suburban style houses built there.

You are wrong about what modern urban planners perfer.  New Urbanism tries to recreate what already exists in many of Youngstown's intact neighborhoods. (smaller, narrower lots, with houses close to the street)

[Rick Rowlands]

So what is the end game here?  What would the City of Youngstown do with multitudes of abandoned housing under its care?  These homes are still energy inefficient structures probably with substandard heating and electrical systems, with roofs that will need replacing either immediately or at some future date.  Their yards will need to be maintained as well.  Add this to the likely $500 cost per window panel and you've saddled the City with tens of thousands of dollars of additional costs to save houses that nobody will ever live in again. 

The correct course of action is to continue demolishing this housing until a state of equilibrium is reached.  At some point the number of available houses will equal the demand for houses, and then the value of those remaining houses will begin to rise.  This strategy also clears vast amounts of land for future development.  Whereas small lot sizes with houses placed close to the street was a model for early 20th century city planners, today's planners prefer larger lots with greater setbacks. 

Rusty River, I would imagine that your suggestion to City Hall would have had more impact had it been accompanied with a check of sufficient size to purchase enough of these panels to cover several houses, or lines on funding to pay for the project.   As I have found with my project, there is never a shortage of people with "good" ideas, but those ideas rarely are backed up with the resources, manpower or money to carry them out.

One of the greatest impediments to a revitalization of Youngstown's neighborhoods is the presence of so many government dependent people living in the city.  As long as we continue to ignore this root cause every action taken to reverse Youngstown's course will result in failure. Government handouts have created a class of people who are not in control of their lives.  Paying people for merely existing removes the imperative to create their own destinies and instead settle for a life of dependent mediocrity.   So much idle time results in crime, vandalism and social problems. The only way to eliminate this dependent class is to wean them off of government support.  However, the trend of the current government is to go in the opposite direction and increase the size of the dependent class.

[AllanY2525]

Rusty -


THANK YOU FOR DOING THAT! 

There are "viable solutions" out there....whether or not city hall and Mahoning
County are willing to IMPLEMENT them, however, is a horse of a different color,
so to speak....

I think the city should start thinking about using Eminent Domain more - any
property that could be seized "for the Public Good" could, theoreticallly, become
a candidate for such an exercise of the city's legal powers.

As things stand now, these vacant properties are just the opposite : a detriment
to the city, and to its citizens... and a danger to its children - ESPECIALLY when
they are right across the street, or adjacent to, a major public park.

[rusty river]

Anyone wanna run this idea past city hall?

Already did.

[AllanY2525]

This article appeared in today's edition of a local publication.. it is about the
VERY SAME type of door and window shields I was referring to in my last
post on this topic... the District of Columbia has started a pilot program to
try these shields out... they are, however, made of steel and not plastic
or other composites.


http://www.realestaterama.com/2009/05/11/mayor-fenty-highlights-vacant-property-initiative-announces-new-security-measures-to-protect-residents-minimize-blight-ID05315.html

The outer side of the panels is ZINC coated, which makes it very easy to remove
graffitti.... and they do NOT rust because of this coating.  They are VENTED,
and allow NATURAL SUNLIGHT to come in, thereby reducing the possibility of
mold and/or mildew buildup in the sealed structure.   They even make decals
which can be attached, to make the shields more aesthetically pleasing on the
outside.

The decals shown in one of the attached photos actually make the outside of
the panel look like a normal window - with mini blinds !

If there's ANYTHING that the Youngstown and greater Mahoning valley knows
how to do... and do WELL - its metal fabricating.  We could be making these
right here in the valley and even SELLING them in other urban areas with similar
vacant property issues...

God knows we have MORE than enough scrap metal down on Poland Avenue to
make these shields VERY inexpensively...and lots of fabrication facilities in the
area as well.

I shudder to even THINK about how much of that scrap metal was illegally
stripped from vacant homes in the city - HOW IRONIC would it be if someone
were to melt down this same, stolen metal to make shields with - and keep
out the very same people who stole the metal in the first place?

Here is their website, for those who might be interested in protecting a
vacacant property:

http://www.vacantpropertysecurity.com/


The are installed WITHOUT damaging the building, and are TOTALLY reusable.

Anyone wanna run this idea past city hall?

[Mary_Krupa]

This is too painful to read about.

[AllanY2525]

Could anyone please ask Phil Kidd, Jaime , etc if they could possibly get me
copies of of all the interior photos of the mansion?  I really had hoped that
some day I would get to see the inside of it... and at the very least I still
want them for historical purposes...

I made a page on my website a long time ago for places that are now gone,
but not forgotten.. I would love to do a complete documentary on the
mansion and share it with everyone.....

[jay]

This is all that remains of the house. 

[Lynds]

i live two homes down from this house (next to Renner Mansion) and watch this home burn the other morning it was extremely sad...i ran past that home several times a week and thought : wow what i would do if i had the chance and funds to buy and remodel. The day we did Cityscape me a few people walked around wick park looking at the homes and that was one of the houses that we all agreed looked like it could be salvaged, the windows where always boarded up securely, who know what type of condition the insdie was in. who ever owned this home ought to be ashamed the history that burnt away with the home this week...

the girl who was taping looked pretty young, I'm going to see if i can find anything on youtube.

[AllanY2525]

Sometimes local governments don't always see the forest through the trees....

SECURING, PROTECTING, AN ASSETT:

Boarding up a door or window with plywood is not sufficient to keep people out.
Plywood or ordinary lumber is not strong enough to withstand hammer or prybar
attacks..it decomposes when exposed to the elements and eventually disintegrates.  Ordinary hand tools are easy to carry and conceal by house
strippers and vandals, druggies, etc can easily destroy or defeat either of these protective measures with such tools - we all know that already.

If you want an idea for a better and more viable solution, I can point one out
immediately, since it already exists RIGHT IN YOUNGSTOWN. Take a trip to what
remains of Westlake Terrace homes - the "shields" installed over the doors of the
vacant units are better and stronger than boards or plywood, can withstand
MULTIPLE, REPEATED attacks - and are FAR less expensive than repeatedly
"boarding up" a door or window with plain wood, or plywood - only to have it
removed, damaged, or destroyed altogether by vandals, the elements, whatever.

Their benefits FAR outweigh the initial expenditure involved in procuring them,
for the following reasons:

1) They are re-usable - they only need to be paid for ONE TIME. Y.M.H.A. has been
using these for a long time now.  Once Westlake Terrace Homes is gone for good, the
shields can be taken down and used elsewhere, for only the cost of moving and installing
them at their next location.  Every time they are re-used, they further reduce
the city's cost for buying them in the first place.  Plywood and boards do not take
very well to being repeatedly nailed/screwed on and then removed - we know that already.


2)They are attached to openings from the INSIDE, ie: there ARE no nails, screws, etc to
break or pull out or pry loose with a hammer, prybar, etc - unlike the current method,
which attaches them from the OUTSIDE with nails and screws that can easily be attacked.

3)Because they are inorganic, they do NOT degrade when exposed to the elements to any
significant degree, regardless of HOW LONG they remain in place.  This means they
need not be replaced because of age, or the long-term effects of the elements.  They
probably form a better seal againt damage from the weather, too because it appears
that they go on OVER TOP OF the moulding around the door or window, rather than
being fastened TO it.

4)Today's composite materials are stronger, lighter, more durable, and can be manufactured
faster and with less expense than the lumber materials they can replace. Many of these
composites are LITERALLY stronger than STEEL that is used in hammers and prybars, etc. 
Take "Kevlar", for instance - it's used to make armor plate that is LITERALLY bullet-proof.

If it can stop a bullet, a hammer or prybar attack is completely futile and doesn't stand
a chance in hell against it.  Something like this could make it so difficult to break
into a propery without being caught that potential thieves, druggies, etc would be forced
to look elsewhere for easier targets.  I've seen a composite material that could probably
dull a drill bit and take the teeth off a hacksaw blade.  Carbon fiber composite is so
tough it's used for BRAKE PADS and will literally wear the high grade steel off of brake
drums and rotors.  It's also used in the chassis of some cars because it is so light,
and so strong that it can (and does) replace steel in these applications routinely.
The hotter carbon fiber brake pads get, the BETTER they grab onto the drums and rotors,
ie: they don't lose their effectiveness as conditions become extreme.

5) There are plastics manufacturing plants right in the area - they could make such
shields and the city, or county, or both could probably get something like these
at very reasonable costs, with some kind of arrangement with these plastics
plant(s). 

6) Manufacturing is literllay the life-blood of the Mahoning Valley. The extra manufacturing
and sales could generate more jobs, or sales at the very least. The additional jobs and sales
revenues would generate more payroll and corporate profits. The additional payroll and
corporate profits would generate more tax revenues for the city and the county, which in
turn could further reduce the costs involved with the purchase and installation of these
shields on valuable assets like the Park Avenue mansion - which WAS structurally sound
and viable when it first ceased to operate as a nursing care facility and became vacant,
and neglected by its current owner.

The city WOULDN'T HAVE TO foot the bill for maintaining or rehabbing properties like the
former Park Avenue mansion - I'm saying that city COULD have used such devices to make
the property virtually INVULNERABLE to repeated break-in attempts, without bankrupting
itself in the process, and could have preserved both the historic and economic values of the
property - AND its structural, mechanical, etc. integrity to a large extent INDEFINITELY
until such time as it could have become a sustainable, valuable asset to the city and
the county once more.

The city is ALREADY SPENDING ITS FUNDS to put plywood panels in place on many of these
properties - I think my idea is a MORE COST EFFECTIVE method of sealing these
vacant properties.  In the end, it would not only SAVE the city money on a job it already
does - tt would actually produce a return on the city's investment every time it is
implemented on another strategically targeted asset - an asset the Park Avenue Mansion
could have been, had it been saved in time.

Preventing the deterioration of the neighborhood around the park to the point where
it becomes and ugly, unsafe hell-hole, WILL revitalize it! Bringing people back
into the area, - people who pay property taxes, people who patronize nearby businesses,
commercial real estate investors (who pay more taxes than home owners) and financially
solvent instititutions like YSU.

By keeping targeted, still-viable properties (ie: those with SIGNIFICANT value, both historic
and financial) like the now-extinct Park Avenue mansion from reaching these conditions
in the first place, they could become assets to the city once again, in due time. 
The city would need only to play a "waiting game" 

With Y.S.U. steadily moving closer and closer to Wick Park, ANY property around the perimeter
of Wick park, or anywhere within the boundaries of the Wick Historic District WILL become more
valuable with each passing year - which is precisely why I invested my life's savings in
properties around the park.  [Well, that and the fact that I am a ardent afficionado of
historic homes and their architecture]

Someday, my properties will subsidize my declining years when I retire and I WILL come home to
Youngstown.  I live three hundred miles from Youngstown, and yet I am already bringing 
new sources of revenue to both the city and Mahoning County as an outsider- by bringing
these abandoned and vacant properties back to life, generating income, paying property taxes,
fighting blight and decay, bringing new people into the area and, eventually, purchasing and
renovating even more of them in the same neighborhood. 

Just as my investments will bear the fruit of permanent, sustainable income for ME eventually,
they are ALREADY generating permanent, sustainable revenue for Youngstown and Mahoning
county.

The Park Avenue Mansion and other valuable properties like it, could have done this in due
time - if some folks downtown could have had more vision, and the ingenuity to find a
"more viable solution".   

The fact that the building and demolitions department "looked the other way" for so long
and DIDN'T tear the house down, tells me that even THEY saw the potential in the Park
Avenue Mansion, IF it could only have been "KEPT ALIVE" long enough.  It's a waiting game,
folks.

YSU has been playing this waiting game, quietly buying up properties north of the new
dorms along the i-680 freeway, as they become cheap and easily snapped up.

Now that YSO has jumped the barrier of the i680 overpass with the new dorms
on the northern side of it they ARE IN the Wick Park neighborhood for all practical
purposes. They WILL, eventually, expand to the north again - getting closer and closer
to Wick Park, and deeper into the historic district. 

It's very likely that Wick Park will be WITHIN the campus some day in the not too
distant future. Although it may never actually be OWNED by the university, the university
MAY agree to take over all, or part of the cost of maintaining the park, as is the case
with the Steel Museum downtown.  This would save the city a BOATLOAD of money, in the end.
Patrolling the park with campus police would save more revenues for city hall - they
already have some jurisdiction off campus as things stand now.

Decreasing the city's expenditures has the SAME net effect as INCREASING her revenues.
Preserving valuable assets until such time as they can be brought back to life only
generates more revenues in the long term - so there IS a payback for the initial investment
required to save these valuable, historic assets.

One of the key goals of the Youngstown 2010 plan is to create a sort of "critical mass"
by tying the city's remaining cultural and historic assets together to attract both new
residents and businesses alike.  These historic and cultural assetts are the legacy left
to us by our grand parents and great parents, who lived in a time when Youngstown was
booming - and they are CRITICAL to the successes of integration strategies such as this. 
Once they are gone, any benefit that could be derived from them is gone as well.

With this fall's record-breaking enrollment, and over NINE HUNDRED housing units already
"online", YSU STILL has a SEVERE housing shortage - the mansion on Park Avenue, had it
been properly secured with better shields over the exterior openings (using better measures
like composite materials) could have become very attractive to the University,
an investor, or BOTH - as additional housing for students.  Having Wick Park right in
front of it would have made it a VERY desirable place to live, or work, or both.

YSU plays the "waiting game", quietly, and behind the scenes - why shouldn't the city
play the same game?  Once these valuable assets are sealed from vandals and the elements,
they cost the city NOTHING further just sitting there, WAITING......A stone house like the
Mansion on Park Avenue needs little to no maintenance, barring the roof on top of it,
once properly sealed with barriers that cannot be broken by conventional means.

I am playing the waiting game too - I don't have the money to renovate and rehab
my apartment building - YET - but I DID properly seal the building after clearing it
out, stabilizing it structurally, sealing it against the elements with a brand new
roof and steel doors, etc protecting it from vandals - so that it WILL NOT deteriorate
while I am playing this waiting game.....

If I could do this with resources that are microscopic compared to those of the City
of Youngstown, on a property that is WAYYYY larger than the mansion on Park Avenue
was, and in MUCH worse condition that the mansion was when it first went empty and
un-used, why cant the city do this with ONE HOUSE that was a valuable asset to the
city, historically - culturally, and financially (some day, when the waiting game
was over...and someone bought the place and brought it back to life)


NOW - as far as liens and encumberances are concerned....

I can tell you that title reports were ordered on all of van sickle's properties and that
there are numerous and MASSIVE encumbrances against them. There are certain types of liens
that the city can deal with and settle, and a procedure for obtaining properties.

There are many that it can not. These encumbrances were of the latter.

Maybe the city needs to examine and compare what is "procedurally correct" with WHAT
IS LEGALLY WITHIN ITS POWER TO DO.  If the procedures, and NOT THE LAW are the obstacle,
then the city should CHANGE OR REMOVE the current set of procedures TO MAKE IT POSSIBLE
to clear these liens. 

The constitution of the United States can be changed, so laws written in the past by
legislative bodies operating at a level of power far, far below the federal government
can probably be changed as well to make it possible for the city to negotiate and/or
remove legal obstacles.
 
Laws are changed, amended, and taken off the books every single day in ALL parts
of our country.  The Constitution was made a flexible, fluid instrument of law
because the founding fathers had the vision to foresee that it would HAVE to change
with the changing times, and the current needs of the people.

I see no reason why the same principles that made that possible should not apply to
local or state laws that are creating these obstacles for the city.  Obviously, the
higher the level of government that wrote the "obstacles" into law, the more effort
it will take to remove these obstacles via changes in the very legislation that
created these obstacles in the first place.


conditions in YOungstown have changed drastically in the current times: massive loss in
population, skyrocketing vacancy rates and all of the problems that this phenomenon
has produced, etc - the city and county should look at these as the incentive, and the
motivation to change things from a legal perspective by aggressively lobbying to remove
the obstacles tying its hands together.


To the best of my knowledge, the county of Mahoning can vanquish all types liens and
encumberances via the mechanism of Sheriff's Sales, with the exception of:

1) Liens levied by the State of Ohio (since the state government can countermand local
governments)

2) Liens levied by government of the United States (since it can countermand
laws written by both local and state governments)

3) The Youngstown Water Department - the only public utility I know of that can put
a lien on a property for non-payment of a utility bill.  Although a lien levied by
the water department cannot be cleared via Sheriff's sale, this is rendered moot
by the fact that the city itself IS the lien holder in these cases, and will receive
any revenue derived from payment and removal of this type of lien because it OWNS
the water department.

Any commercial loan holders, mechanics liens (levied by unpaid contractors, tradesmen,
etc) other lien holders, etc that do not fall into the categories cited above are
basically NULL AND VOID after a Sheriff's sale, to the best of my knowledge - but I
would not attempt to claim that I know eveything when it comes to the law, nobody
does....I would LOVE to see exactly WHAT types of liens the city/county cannot negotiate
or remove, item for item - and the legal reasons why it cannot be done.

If there are other agencies/entities that can withstand a Sheriff's sale, maybe there
is STILL a way to circumvent them.

Since Youngstown IS the county seat of government for all of Mahoning County, it could
certainly use this mechanism to acquire CONTROL of these properties, WITH OR WITHOUT
AN ACTUAL OWNERSHIP STAKE IN THEM - simply because there are unpaid taxes which are due
and payable to Mahoning County - an overdue tax of ONE DOLLAR would probably qualify
a property for a Sheriff's sale, if left unpaid long enough.  This allows NEW investors
to buy these properties DIRT CHEAP, thereby MAKING them an affordable project for
rehabilitation.

Two of the properties I now own were formerly held by the infamous "Mark Mallen", who
skipped out of Youngstown like a Space Shuttle leaving the launch pad at NASA !!

This unscrupulous Son Of A B**CH ran his properties into total ruin, leveraged every
DIME he could squeeze out of them by means of mortgages and loans, etc, left unpaid [
Mahoning County] property taxes and utility bills, etc.

In the end, a Sheriff's sale trumped ALL of these EXCEPT the unpaid water bill, and made
it possible for me to buy the properties FREE AND CLEAR of liens and encumberances. 
I was EVEN able to obtain title insurance policies for both of them.

WHY?  Because I got a NEW deed for these property - a deed that did not have the old
liens RECORDED on it.  There may be powers that are above and beyond the county,
but these powers do NOT producel OR RECORD, land titles and deeds in Mahoning
county - Mahoning COunty does this within its own government entity (ie: clerk of
courts).

As for the water bill, who did I have to pay? The YOUNGSTOWN WATER DEPARTMENT.  Yep,
the City Of Youngstown made some money on the properties EVEN AFTER they had gone through
a Sheriff's Sale !!

I was able to buy a FOUR LEVEL, 16,800 sq. foot, 12-apartment, brick building for less
than the price of my truck, thanks to a Sheriff's Sale.  And although it will take
half a million dollars of my money to bring the place back to life, the cost is PEANUTS
in contrast to a similar project just about anywhere else but Youngstown.

My title insurance protects me against ANY AND ALL debts he incurred against these
properties that were not recorded on the NEW DEED that I GOT when I bought them.
THIS INCLUDES protection from Federal and State agencies that may come looking for money
in the future...and anyone or any THING else that may be exempt from being cleared by
a Sherrif's sale. If it's NOT on the new deed, then whoever or whatever is trying to
come after the new owner for the lien has to fight the legal system in City Hall,
the Mahoning County Government, and the deed recorder to GET the lien put on the new
deed in the first place.

The Youngstown Water Department has the legal authority to place liens against ANY
property it serves for an unpaid water bill.  If the liens are not paid, the water
department can seize the property - NO OTHER public utility has the power to do this
and the Youngstown Water Department IS, after all, owned and operated by the City of
Youngstown as far as I know.

There are other solutions out there - what it's going to take to solve the problem
is people who have the creativity and ingenuity to FIND another way, OR the common
sense to find someone else who DOES have the creativity and the ingenuity to find
another way.

I could be [ and likely I AM]  wrong on some of the rules, regulations, etc involved
in all of this - anyone reading this is welcome to "school me" where I am in error...
and show me why any of the things I've written about above, CANNOT be done, and why
any or all of my ideas are impossible

[rusty river]

I cannot believe that the city would allow ANY of the historic mansions facing
Wick Park to be torn down, these are irreplaceable pieces of Youngstown's
proud history.

And what should the city have done? It's easy to point out the problems, but there seems to be a lack of viable solutions.

I can tell you that title reports were ordered on all of van sickle's properties and that there are numerous and MASSIVE encumbrances against them. There are certain types of liens that the city can deal with and settle, and a procedure for obtaining properties. There are many that it can not. These encumbrances were of the latter.

And if the city were able to obtain the property, where does the funding come from to rehabilitate it? This particular home was on the demolition list, which meant that it had numerous structural and code violations. (note that despite being on the demo list for several years, the city chose NOT to demolish it)

Former city planner Anthony Kobak and Phil Kidd looked at the properties (259 park and the one on broadway) to see if the structures were salvageable. Phil was even able to obtain written permission to occupy the two structures in an attempt to gain access and potentially stabilize them. Anyone who has had any personal experience with van sickle regarding his properties will appreciate what a feat this was.

I personally appealed to the Youngstown Business Incubator to look into utilizing the two homes as "Tech Houses" that could act as temporary housing for employees of incubator businesses moving to the area and as lodging/banquet facilities to entertain guests and clients. Mr. Cossler was more than willing to consider it and sent out an email to all members/employees of the Incubator about the possibility. He received zero interest.

You already mentioned the efforts of jaime hughes and her friend corey to get the property secured and even personally cutting the grass.

Efforts WERE made to save this house, and it's unfortunate and discouraging to see it reduced to rubble in such a manner.

[AllanY2525]

All I can say about the fire is... GOOD GOD ALMIGHTY...this is SO sad...

The house is [or WAS] located at 259 Park Avenue...and from what I have been
told, it was built circa 1875 - and was THE FIRST HOUSE on what WE all know as
"Park Avenue". 

The original "Park Avenue" was located on the South Side, running roughly east to
west, from underneath the Market Street bridge to Mill Street (now known as
Oak Hill Avenue) just above the hill where the former South Side Hospital
now stands....the 1882 Panoramic Map of Youngstown shows this detail...but
there was not yet much of a "North Side" in existence at the time..the map does
not depict anything much past the bottom of the hill leading up what is now
Wick Ave, Elm Street, 5th Ave, etc.

This means that the present Park Avenue was either named something else,
or did not exist at all...the original owners of the house may have owned all
the land around it too (excepting Wick Park, of course).  The fact that there was
(still  is ??) a barn behind the place suggests it may have originally been a farm
house, so it's quite possible the lot used to be much, MUCH larger than it is now.

I've also heard that it was originally a wood frame structure, and that it was
added on to, with the stone exterior added later.

Mr. Van Sickle owned and operated a nursing home from this house, which had
THIRTEEN bedrooms, two kitchens and both indoor and outdoor porches.  I am
sad that I did not have an opportunity to photo document the house's
interior ... I had never set foot inside and always wanted to.

Oh yeah, the pipes on the front porch WERE part of a sprinkler system.  The
nursing home ran on state funding, so it was required to have fire protection
inside... I used to see the illuminated, red EXIT signs through the windows when walking past the place at night.

My mother and I managed Parkway Tower apartments back in the 1980's, when
I was still a kid in high school...I would walk past this place every day and
sometimes there would be old folks sitting outside on the front porch... they
would smile and wave as I walked past.

Mr. Van Sickle also owns (or owned) the former group homes on the Broadway
Ave side of Wick Park (ANOTHER beautiful, old stone mansion) and the recently
closed group home(s) on Illinois Avenue.  I hope that these do NOT meet with
the same fate as 259 Park Avenue - I own property right across the street
from the closed group homes on Illinois Ave.

From what I have heard, the house had been broken into repeatedly, and the
stripping of it's architectural treasures had already been taking place.  I can only
imagine how fantastic the place must have been inside.

In the summer of 2005, the house was being offered for sale by a local realty
company, and I had inquired about the property and was told that the asking
price was $179,000 - more money than I could come up with - what a shame.

I cannot believe that the city would allow ANY of the historic mansions facing
Wick Park to be torn down, these are irreplaceable pieces of Youngstown's
proud history.

I know that Jamie tried, repeatedly, and for a very long time, to save this
beautiful old mansion... and we all owe him a tip of the hat for all of the
hard work in trying to help save the place from extinction.

I did a photo shoot of all the houses around Wick Park back in 2005, when I
decided that I was going to start investing in historic properties close to
the park.  The attached photos are the only ones I could find in my archives..
I never did get them up on my web site... now I think I will, so that there will
be at least SOME kind of photographic record of the mansion's existence there.

There was also some kind of amateur/"indie" film shot inside the place a couple
of summers ago - I was walking past one day and saw people in the back yard,
so I walked around back to investigate...there was a Sheriff's deputy there to
keep an eye on things and the front and rear entrances had been un-boarded
during the shooting of the film (obviously someone had obtained permission
to be inside the place doing this, hence the sheriff's presence).

If ANYONE knows who did the filming, and where a copy of the filming could
be obtained, I would LOVE to have a copy for my archives.... it is sure to have
some fantastic images of this beautiful mansion, now lost forever....