Youngstown "rapes" suburbs

[rusty river]

It's my opinion that such strong public denouncement by public officials, BEFORE any formal talks regarding the water/income tax proposal  between the townships and the city has taken place, reflects poor, shortsighted and irresponsible judgment and further contributes to the rift between Youngstown and its suburbs.

This issue is not new, it's been a good year since I first heard of it.  The trustees denouncements aren't exactly a knee jerk reaction

Yes, Jay Williams spoke of this proposal in August of 06 I believe. The problem I have with the reaction of the trustees is that all details regarding the plan have not been worked out by the city, let alone presented to the townships. The results of the study being conducted for the city have not even been completed yet.

Youngstown will not be making any additional money from the plan. Boardman will. Like westsider says, the goal of this specific proposal is to lower the income tax. (Revenue from the income tax on Boardman residents would offset the amount the city would be giving up due to the water surcharge cuts and lower tax rate, although Im not positive about this...)

Much of Youngstown's surplus has been added to the demolition fund.

I guess my point regarding the townships is that I'm tired of trustees pretending that they are something other than what they are. Boardman and Austintown are not "suburbs" in the traditional meaning of the word. They are highly populated, highly developed, urban areas. Its only a matter of time before the city's problems take over the townships. So instead of trying to fight the city, how about we recognize the reality of the situation, realize that living five minutes down Mahoning avenue does not mean you're in some safe isolation of paradise, and be open minded to what city officials proposes. Most cities in America (especially out west) would not even open up a dialog and would simply annex the property in question. Youngstown has not done this, so obviously they are not trying to start a war.
And please, before you go on the radio shouting about boycotts, make sure you are well informed about the specifics of what is being discussed.

[northside lurker]

Townships were a form of government meant to preside over RURAL FARM communities. Austintown is no longer a farm community. Boardman is no longer a farm community. (If they were, I wouldn't have to spend a fortune for canned junk at Giant Eagle...)
These "townships" are highly populated urban areas. Township governments are not efficient at maintaining the massive infrastructure that has developed, especially in Boardman. Kathy Miller says its futile to "throw money at a broken system." Last time I checked, it was Youngstown with the budget surplus and Boardman with a 3.5 million dollar deficit. If trustees don't like what is being proposed, incorporate and become a city. I'm sure you'll have the full support of your residents.

Not sure where you're going with this?  But if Youngstown does have a budget surplus, why does it need more $$ from the suburbs (at least one on which is already hurting)? And why is it not using this surplus to get it's act together?

I hope Rusty River replies to your post.  But, I just want to make a small point.  From what I've read about the proposed agreement with Boardman, in the Vindicator, Youngstown won't get any money from the deal.  They are just using this as a tool to lower the city income tax to 2.25%.  Maybe the city's budget surplus will be used to cover the reduction in the water surcharge?

[Why?Town]

It's my opinion that such strong public denouncement by public officials, BEFORE any formal talks regarding the water/income tax proposal  between the townships and the city has taken place, reflects poor, shortsighted and irresponsible judgment and further contributes to the rift between Youngstown and its suburbs.

This issue is not new, it's been a good year since I first heard of it.  The trustees denouncements aren't exactly a knee jerk reaction.

I find Ron Verb's likening of the proposal to rape to be extremely distasteful and narrow minded. What about the leeching of Youngstown's tax base to the suburbs? What about the leeching of Youngstown's professional base to the suburbs? What about the leeching of Youngstown's students through open enrollment policies to the suburbs?

Apples and oranges, The "rape" Ron speaks of would be city government mandated, whereas the "leaching" you speak of is based on individuals personal decisions. decisions probably resulting from city gorvernment's poor performance in the past. See below:

Township trustees cite city issues like crime, corruption, and a failing school system as reasons for why business will never develop in Youngstown, and the reason for the mass exodus to the suburbs. These problems are not new to the city, nor are they exclusive to the city. (Google DeBartolo and you'll find numerous articles outlining the ties between the developer and the mob. Boardman was built by organized crime!) These problems have always been present in the city.

Regardless of who built Boardman, the majority of crime in the area is in Youngstown, not the suburbs.

The majority of families living in the suburbs are not new to the area. They are natives of THE CITY. When problems began to show up and develop, instead of doing something to address them, they chose to ignore them and move out of the city limits. The generations who allowed Youngstown to become what it is today, now reside in the suburbs.

I would need to see stats on this. In my family you can go back 100+ years in this valley and not find a single Youngstown resident, on my wife's side you need to go back to the early 1930s.

Do people really believe that these problems and issues won't work their way into Boardman and Austintown? It's already happening. There was a time when you crossed midlothian blvd, you KNEW you were in Boardman. It was as if there was an invisible wall between the township and the city. Not so much anymore. The same is true with Austintown. The denial of this is laughable.

Can't disagree there.

Townships were a form of government meant to preside over RURAL FARM communities. Austintown is no longer a farm community. Boardman is no longer a farm community. (If they were, I wouldn't have to spend a fortune for canned junk at Giant Eagle...)
These "townships" are highly populated urban areas. Township governments are not efficient at maintaining the massive infrastructure that has developed, especially in Boardman. Kathy Miller says its futile to "throw money at a broken system." Last time I checked, it was Youngstown with the budget surplus and Boardman with a 3.5 million dollar deficit. If trustees don't like what is being proposed, incorporate and become a city. I'm sure you'll have the full support of your residents.

Not sure where you're going with this?  But if Youngstown does have a budget surplus, why does it need more $$ from the suburbs (at least one on which is already hurting)? And why is it not using this surplus to get it's act together?

Some questions I have-

Kathy Miller says that the property values of affected Boardman businesses would decrease. To what extent?

Which is a higher dollar value, the 20% reduction of water surcharges for ALL Boardman residents supplied by city water, or the 2.25% income tax collected from employees working for businesses supplied by city water? (Please take into consideration the Boardman residents who currently work within the city who would see their income tax DECREASE by .5%) Apply this to Austintown as well, which is nearly completely dependent on city water.

Are township trustees willing to prevent new residential development in order to preserve property values? (It's obvious that people aren't moving into the area from abroad. With the rehabilitation of Youngtown's neighborhoods and the resulting increasing property values, lower income families unable to pay higher property taxes will follow the housing ladder into the suburbs, reducing township property values and the tax revenue the township relies on.)

Are township trustees aware that Youngstown can legally annex the properties in question, without any negotiation or compensation to the townships? (Most cities in the nation do this, but for examples closer to home, consider Columbus, Cleveland, Cincinnati... etc.)

Good questions to which I have no anwers.

Are township trustees aware that the #1 reason cited for the lack of large business development in the area is Youngstown's high tax rates?

Will increasing the size of the area paying the high rates will help? even at the reduced 2.25% it's still quite high.

Do township trustees believe that more business activity in the city would not benefit their residents?

Does Youngstown believe that more taxes would help business move to suburbs?

Are township trustees aware that despite much state/federal monies available to the area for economic development, we are not given this funding due to the fractured and childlike competitive nature of the governments of the greater Youngstown/Warren Metro area?

Is the city aware that it takes two to tango? Meaning that it's just as much of the problem.

I'm sick and tired of self-serving politics getting in the way of advancing this area.

Me too! Funny how see things from different points of view.

[rusty river]

Needless to say, the response of township trustees to Mayor Williams's income tax proposal has been very negative.
Yesterday on the Ron Verb show, Boardman trustee Kathy Miller and her Austintown counterpart Lisa Oles spoke adamantly against this proposal, even venturing to say it was "laughable."

It's my opinion that such strong public denouncement by public officials, BEFORE any formal talks regarding the water/income tax proposal  between the townships and the city has taken place, reflects poor, shortsighted and irresponsible judgment and further contributes to the rift between Youngstown and its suburbs. I find Ron Verb's likening of the proposal to rape to be extremely distasteful and narrow minded. What about the leeching of Youngstown's tax base to the suburbs? What about the leeching of Youngstown's professional base to the suburbs? What about the leeching of Youngstown's students through open enrollment policies to the suburbs?

Township trustees cite city issues like crime, corruption, and a failing school system as reasons for why business will never develop in Youngstown, and the reason for the mass exodus to the suburbs. These problems are not new to the city, nor are they exclusive to the city. (Google DeBartolo and you'll find numerous articles outlining the ties between the developer and the mob. Boardman was built by organized crime!) These problems have always been present in the city. The majority of families living in the suburbs are not new to the area. They are natives of THE CITY. When problems began to show up and develop, instead of doing something to address them, they chose to ignore them and move out of the city limits. The generations who allowed Youngstown to become what it is today, now reside in the suburbs.

Do people really believe that these problems and issues won't work their way into Boardman and Austintown? It's already happening. There was a time when you crossed midlothian blvd, you KNEW you were in Boardman. It was as if there was an invisible wall between the township and the city. Not so much anymore. The same is true with Austintown. The denial of this is laughable.

Townships were a form of government meant to preside over RURAL FARM communities. Austintown is no longer a farm community. Boardman is no longer a farm community. (If they were, I wouldn't have to spend a fortune for canned junk at Giant Eagle...)
These "townships" are highly populated urban areas. Township governments are not efficient at maintaining the massive infrastructure that has developed, especially in Boardman. Kathy Miller says its futile to "throw money at a broken system." Last time I checked, it was Youngstown with the budget surplus and Boardman with a 3.5 million dollar deficit. If trustees don't like what is being proposed, incorporate and become a city. I'm sure you'll have the full support of your residents.

Some questions I have-

Kathy Miller says that the property values of affected Boardman businesses would decrease. To what extent?

Which is a higher dollar value, the 20% reduction of water surcharges for ALL Boardman residents supplied by city water, or the 2.25% income tax collected from employees working for businesses supplied by city water? (Please take into consideration the Boardman residents who currently work within the city who would see their income tax DECREASE by .5%) Apply this to Austintown as well, which is nearly completely dependent on city water.

Are township trustees willing to prevent new residential development in order to preserve property values? (It's obvious that people aren't moving into the area from abroad. With the rehabilitation of Youngtown's neighborhoods and the resulting increasing property values, lower income families unable to pay higher property taxes will follow the housing ladder into the suburbs, reducing township property values and the tax revenue the township relies on.)

Are township trustees aware that Youngstown can legally annex the properties in question, without any negotiation or compensation to the townships? (Most cities in the nation do this, but for examples closer to home, consider Columbus, Cleveland, Cincinnati... etc.)

Are township trustees aware that the #1 reason cited for the lack of large business development in the area is Youngstown's high tax rates?

Do township trustees believe that more business activity in the city would not benefit their residents?

Are township trustees aware that despite much state/federal monies available to the area for economic development, we are not given this funding due to the fractured and childlike competitive nature of the governments of the greater Youngstown/Warren Metro area?


I'm sick and tired of self-serving politics getting in the way of advancing this area.