Trash Fees Are Also Going Up

[Shar]

Wow... lots of posts on this topic.  I posted last week and wanted to clarify the type of container that they will not pick up in the city.  I moved from Boardman into Youngstown in 2001.  In Boardman we paid an extra $1 per month for a large trash container on wheels.  All of the trash fit into one container and the truck had a special lift to empty the trash container.  When we moved into Youngstown we went and bought one of those containers.  We had just moved, filled the thing up and wheeled it out to the curb and the next morning we had a red sticker on the side of it that said they would not empty it because it was too large.  We called and were told that they do not have to empty any trash can over 35 gallons.  I called City Hall and had them fax me a copy of the ordinance and sure enough the trash can cannot be over 35 gallons.  We called the trash company back and asked if we could pay extra and upgrade our service so that the large container could be emptied and they told us no, because we live in the City.  We have since given our $110 trash container away to friends in the suburbs and have bought smaller containers but there are definately limits on the trash containers that you can use in the City. 

[connie254]

We take our cardboard to the recycle areas that are all over the county but not in the city.  Between the cardboard, the newspapers and magazines(that recycling trucks don't pick up anymore), the no.3-6 plastics that we can take to the recycle areas, we take a trip there every 7-10 days.  It's usually on the way to the store, so no wasting gas.  We compost what we can. The plastic bags get dropped off as well. Really isn't that hard. We can definitely get by with only one bag per week, and we're  a family of three, four when my stepson visits.  It must help that my DH grew up on a farm and they had to pay per bag. They did what they could to keep that price down and help out on the farm.  My father used coffee grounds and newspaper all the time for gardening.  We just were taught to "reduce, reuse, recycle" from an early age.

[Towntalk]

The schools do make an effort to expose students to the arts, and I do not argue with that. My point is that government is taking so much of our money  (local - state - federal) as are the utility companies that there is precious little left making it necessary for all of us to prioritize our spending ... do we buy a health insurance policy or do we go to a show and hope that we don't have a major illness?

The working poor get hit hard ... they're making too much money for those government programs that were created, but have little money left over for frills.

The new trash fees are not in and of themselves unreasonable, but coupled with all the other expenses a family has, support for the arts is not a priority.

Do you take your children for their regular dental checkup or do you go to a show, even an inexpensive one?

Again, I stress that, for those who can afford it, I don't begrudge them ... more power to them, and three cheers for those good people that have the time to volunteer at one of the venues. The issue before us here is not the arts as such, but is the amount of money that government is taking from us.

The voters vote against a levy and government keeps putting it up in a never ending parade of special elections until they get the results they want. They close the County Jail and turn criminals out onto the streets in order to frighten us into voting for new tax increases. They suspend school programs such as sports in order to get more money, but how many of us get a pay raise on a regular basis?

Look at what happens every time those on Social Security get a raise ... prices go up across the board leaving Seniors no better off than before they got that raise.

[Mary_Krupa]

You make some excellent points about families being able to afford "the arts".

However, even poor families must make an effort to make sure that their children are exposed to the arts.  This is an invaluable part of anyone's education and should not be neglected. It is the responsibility of parents to find ways to educate their children. I heard someone being interviewed on the radio talking about learning to draw when he was growing up. Even though that's not what his career was or that he even had the aptitude for drawing, he still felt that actually learning the discipline of drawing gave him different perspectives and made him use different parts of his mind.

Take advantage of the free museums in the area:  the Butler, the McDonough, the gallery at the Mill Creek Park rose gardens building. They have children's prices at many of the theatres such as YSU. There are many free concerts in the parks in the summer. YSU Festival of the Arts in July is free. There must be other opportunities besides these. Look in Thursdays Vindicator entertainment section or the Metro Monthly for calendars of events, too.

When I was growing up as one of 7 children here in Youngstown, I only went to about 5 movies and went out to eat, including McDonald's, about a dozen times. We didn't have a lot of money but we did things such as mentioned above and did have exposure to the arts. I am grateful to my parents that we had those opportunities which they created. Parents must do what they can and create these opportunities for their children.

[Towntalk]

I must agree that our political leaders won't be happy until they've squeezed every penny out of us.

More than once I've asked the politicians this question: "At what point will you say that you can tax us no more?" and they refuse to give a cut off point.

How can the average Mahoning Valley resident be expected to support such things as the arts when they need every penny they can get their hands on to pay all the taxes that are already imposed on them ... pay utility bills that are the highest in the state ... put food on the table ... put clothes on their backs ... not to mention all the other essential expenses?

What are we suppose to do without in order to dine out at every new restaurant that opens up, or attend every show that comes to town?

I don't begrudge those that can afford to enjoy these luxuries ... more power to them, but I do wish that they would remember that in the grand scheme things, they are in the minority when it comes right down to the total population of the valley.

The trash increase may seem to be small, but when you add that to all the other expenses that the average Youngstown family has, that means that there is less disposable income.

Ask most families how much they have available to put into a savings account even if they are able to squeeze a penny, and they will tell you that they can't, and if they are hit with a catastrophic illness, or if the breadwinner dies where does that leave them?

Quality of life? What quality of live do we have here when we have one of the highest unemployment rates in the state ... when those companies that pay good wages are making drastic cuts ... when most of the new jobs that do come our way pay $10.00 an hour or less?

What quality of life do we have when both parents have to work just to pay for the essentials?

When these families have to make a choice between paying their normal bills, or going out to eat or see a show, which do you think they will choose?

Someone on the radio said that an average night out for a family of four could cost at least $100.00. That $100.00 has to come from somewhere. Less money for food, less money to put away for a rainy day.

Finally, again I stress that I do not begrudge anyone their joys in life, but I do wish that they would remember that not everyone is as fortunate as they are.

[Micky]

After I posted, I saw this article in the Vindi.  Will council pass another increase to our water and sewer bills?  How much more money should be taken from the senior citizens and working poor?  Maybe we'll just have to give all of our paychecks away to everyone else.


Water, sewer bills going up in small Ohio cities
by Newsroom
February 24, 2007 4:10 pm

COLUMBUS (AP) — Homeowners in small Ohio cities, including Salem, are likely to see water and sewer bills go up to pay for treating the motor oil and other pollutants that wash from their driveways and flow toward streams.

The Ohio Environmental Protection Agency has recently told 36 cities that it's their turn to meet federal mandates to apply for a pollution discharge permit and submit a plan for handling runoff from rainstorms. Large and medium cities went through the changes in the past decade.

Local governments, which have about six months to comply after receiving notice from the state, are trying to squeeze their budgets, and some say they have no choice but to raise user fees.

For the complete story, see Sunday's Vindicator and Vindy.com.

[Micky]

Who cares about $ per bag and all the rest.

Council approved a 25% increase and apparently none of us can do anything to change that.  Why the high percentage? 

My wages didn't go up 25% because of increasing gas costs and I'll bet neither did anyone else's who live in the city of Youngstown.

I would like to see the documentation of Waste Management's financial costs including the increased hospitalization benefits for their employees. 

[Towntalk]

But what about non-bagged trash?

If you drive along any street you will see a combination of bagged and non-bagged trash.

Time was when scavengers would drive down streets and pick up stuff that they could sell ... metal cans etc. but judging from what I've seen, they don't do that much any more.

I threw away two complete computer systems that were in good working order but were obsolete and no one took them until the trash pickup.

Should there be an additional charge for non-bagged trash? Judging by some of the stuff I've seen put out on trash day, I'd have to say yes. When you see huge piles of trash ... mattresses, sofa's, chairs, and even televisions sitting out at the curb for the trash man, or piles of stuff from do it yourself remodeling jobs, you'd have to agree that an extra charge is warrented.

Let's include all forms of trash in the debate and not just bags. After all, the non-bagged trash is more of a landfill problem than the bags of trash.

[jay]

If you live in some suburbs,  you might have several waste haulers doing business in your neighborhood.   A company, let's call it "Company W", may offer pay by the month service and "pay as you throw" service.  If you are one of their pay by the month customers, your bill would be $11.00 per month.  If you use their prepaid bags, which are usually a special color and have "Company W" printed on them,  then "Company W" would collect the bag(s) from you without an additional charge.

[Towntalk]

Now I'm confused ... if you have to go somewhere to buy these special bags ... if they are $1.00 each ... 50 bags would be $50.00.

Sure, that could play out to 25 weeks for a family that would use 2 bags a week, but for some poor soul that is on fixed income and has barely enough income to pay for the essentials, that extra expense could mean either buy the "official bags" or pay the gas bill. Remember, you can't buy trash bags with food stamps.

Fifty trash bags can be purchased at a discount store for less than $10.00 so would they be assessed a fee for not using the "official bags"?

This brings me right back to the problem of how the trash men would deal with the whole matter ...

1. What if a household did not use the "official bags" - - would they pick them up anyway, or would they have to make a record of how many "unofficial bags" were at each stop, then bill the household?

2. What about non-bagged trash?

If this scheme was adopted by the city, you can bet that there would be many households that would take their bags of trash to the nearest business with a dumpster and put them there. Others would seek out the nearest abandoned house and turn it into their own pesonal garbage dump.

[northside lurker]

If I correctly understand the idea, you are prepaying your trash bill when you buy the special bags.  If you buy 50 bags and use them in 10 weeks, you will be buying them more often and therefore will be paying more than someone who uses 50 bags in a year.

This is like a prepaid cell phone.  You go to a service center, pay for X number of minutes and use the phone until you run out of time--no phone bill.  When you run out of minutes, you go back to the service center and prepay for more minutes.

[Towntalk]

Thanks for the clarification.

The only problem is that the trash men would have to keep a record of how many bags they picked up for each house on their route, and over a day's time this record keeping would eat up time, and the whole weeks schedule would have to be revised.

Add into this, the amount of time that is spent on non-bagged trash, and the company would have to raise the rates even higher for wages and other employee related costs.

Then too is the costs related to maintaining the records and billing.

On the positive side is that it would create a few new jobs.

Finally there is the problem of how to deal with trash at apartment buildings that do not have dumpsters.

If the landlord is paying the water bill for the whole building, if trash hauling is separated from the water bill, or even if it's just a matter of a new pricing schedule, he will be forced to raise the rent to cover the costs, so any savings to the individuals and families would be a wash. No meaningful savings.

[northside lurker]

Towntalk, I didn't read Jay's message very carefully, but I think the idea was that the $1/bag was prepaying for trash service.  If you used 3 bags in a week, then you just paid $3 for that week's service.  But if you use one bag the following week, then you only paid $1 for that week's service.

I think it would be a good idea, but it doesn't address the issue you brought up about taking unbagged trash--like old furniture, equipment, etc.

[Towntalk]

Am I missing something?

I buy Hefty Trash Bags at the store - - usually the large size used for lawn cleanup. What in the name of all that is good and holy is the difference between those and what Waste Management would sell? They are both plastic.

Commercial Janitorial Services use really large trash bags --- also plastic --- large enough to hold the trash from the whole floor of an office building. If used by a family at home, these bags could (and note I said "could") hold two weeks worth of trash.

If you purchased trash bags at a discount store, you could save money with the same results, but whether you purchased them at Giant Eagle, WalMart, Sam's Club, or Family Dollar, the results would be the same, you would get more for your money ...  under a dollar per bag. Where then would be the savings be by paying $1.00 per bag from Waste Management.

Oh, I forgot ... it makes one feel good ... "We're doing something for the environment."

Has it ever occurred to you that by saving your leaves and grass cuttings and your garbage that you could make compost ... VERY GOOD FOR MOTHER EARTH ... and not have to put it in plastic bags for the trash man.

[connie254]

I'd have to agree with the prepaid bags system.  We re a family of three, sometimes four when my stepson stays with us.  We recycle everything we can, compost,eat in except for special occasions  and use freecycle.com to get rid of some things.  We use one bag per week.  The couple across the street from us are retired and they put out a bag per week, sometimes they skip a week if they don't have enough to put out-he doesn't want to waste a bag putting out only half a bag.Both of our households are the only ones on our block that put out the recycle bin. The majority of the houses put out 5-6 cans full each week at least. If there were older people around us that cared to dsave, we would have no problem helping with their recycling-taking the cardboard and papers to the recycle dropoffs, carry out the bins for them, etc.