Concealed Carry and Block Watches

[rk]

Kitten,

No need to steer clear of the West side, there are some of us working to make it safer! I am an instructor who offers the training required to obtain such a license and i have met a lot more west siders through my offering of the classes than I have at neighborhood meetings!

I would steer clear of the Sparkle Market though, it has a great big sign announcing that it is a criminal safe haven! (Carry is ban inside the store).  BUT there are always alternatives, Giant Eagle, Marcs, Walmart, Plenty of other places to take your money!

Rick

Does this rule mean that a block watcher can't even carry a pea shooter or sling shot? Under the rule quoted they would qualify. Remind me NEVER to visit the West Side. I would fear with holy fear for my life and limb.

[RK]

Kitten,

I see you have began to scratch the surface of how ridiculous this is.  

Even by the simple definition, in my area, what I would consider a "block-watch" activity, myself, personally, is a simple awareness of your surroundings, looking for things that are out of place in your area.  Looking out for yourself and your neighbor and reacting as needed to anything that poses a threat. With that in mind this "rule" for lack of a better term would apply to almost always until you distance yourself significantly from home.

Much of the confusion as is so often seen by these folks imposing policy in an area they do not understand is that it is likely meant to prevent vigilantism.  And I could appreciate that perfectly, if it weren't for the obvious fact that this law has nothing what so ever to do with such activities!  As part of the required training, required reading of the attorney generals pamphlet it is clearly outlined what is a legal use of force and what is not.  My course covers this EXTENSIVELY!

License holders KNOW that they can not contribute in any way in elevating the situation to the need for force. Licensees KNOW that they have a duty to retreat when possible.  They know that they are not allowed, and in my experience they would not WISH to engage in the activities that this "rule" is likely intended to prevent.  I am assuming that is what it is intended to prevent as I can not get a better explanation of the reason for the policy other than "it is written".

The fortunate thing is that this "rule" is for all intents and purposes un enforceable (I HAVE consulted an attorney who works in this area of the law) and is nothing more than a request!  There are no penalties in the Ohio revised code that forbid, but actually protect (as I described) this activity.  

There is nothing that can be done if I see suspicious behavior and using good sense I choose to call the police, as I always would have if in doing that I "break a block watch rule" as long as I do not break any OHIO laws.  It is simply a silly, shallow thought knee jerk reaction by folks who know little or nothing about this law and what they DO know, or think they know is obviously misguide and clouded by their anti gun prejudice! I have smelled as much in some discussions that have brushed on the topic as Coalition meetings where we talk about block watch activities.

I have talked to the folks in my own "block watch" group on my street, there are 4 houses that sort of work together.  All are in agreement, even the gun free home that what we do in our own homes, to look out for one another will not be govern by someone without the authority to do so simply "writing something".  This was not the work of our legislature and will be treated as such.

I am sure I will never get a good answer, such can not be expected under the circumstances.  There really is not one.  I know this, I have seen this mentality in working to get this cause passed THROUGH the legislator.  It is proof though that the  group supposedly formed in an effort to be completely non-political can not remain claiming so.  It is also apparent that the stated goal of reducing crime is mostly a front, and that prejudice will justify those actions making them seem OK to many.  The statistics are irrefutable.  When states enact such legislation crime falls.  No one, no matter how hard they have tried to argue otherwise can overcome this hard factual numbers.  Even without being a political group it seems that little corner of the legislation is something the group could support, the reduction in crime anyway.

The next coalition meeting will be interesting I am sure.

[kitten44505]

Does this rule mean that a block watcher can't even carry a pea shooter or sling shot? Under the rule quoted they would qualify. Remind me NEVER to visit the West Side. I would fear with holy fear for my life and limb.

[kitten44505]

It would seem to me that so long as a person so armed is legal it would be in the very best of reasons why they should be encouraged.

These people are screened by the Sheriff's office, have been trained, and are perfectly legal.

I hardly think that they would want to risk their carry permit. I would rather walk down the street with an armed person than someone who is anti-gun any day of the week at any hour of the day or night.

I fear with holy fear the pro-gun control crowd more than any terrorist because these sort wouldn't lift a single finger to help me should I need help.

[RK]

There are several important, obvious consistencies here.  

First, as far as I have been able to tell, after speaking with members of block watchs on both the north and south sides, mention of this has been directed specifically at the west side?  Is this rule specific to the west side?

Also discussion beyond "It is written" comes to a screaming halt when any actual justification is requested! Whats up with that! Under the circumstances, individuals involved in making such a "rule" ought to have LOADS of justification PRETTY HANDY!

Noone can tell me WHY this needs to be a rule, WHERE this has been a problem, WHO authorized or had the authority to authorize such a rule or ANY answers to any of the other relatively simple questions I have asked!

That screams the obvious and I find it offensive!

[RK]

Does the same manual define "Block watch function"?

When was this rule added? Why was this rule added? Is this simply a "West side" issue, I see it listed only as such!? I know that none of the folks in my block watch were consulted! I have seen many instances of law abiding citizens defending themselves, which the crafters of this law seem to for some reason be opposed to, has there ever been so much as a single instance of a block watcher causing a problem while doing the same?

Just what exactly would the penalty be for violating this rule? I checked and of all of the restrictions listed in the OHIO law in this area block watch is not mentioned!

It seems to me, at least in the lower crime areas of the city "Block-watch" is more of a matter of awareness.  I know some areas have formal patrols and work in shifts, patrolling on foot or in cars. in some cases possibly even utilizing equipment given to them by some sort of funded program in which case I guess there would be some sort of "say" involved, a possible consequence (losing equipment or future funding I suppose) but in the more common instance, the simple neighborhood awareness, alerting one another of something going on and general watching out for one another are the primary "Block-watch functions".

In the case of simple neighborhood awareness I can not see how it can be expected or enforced! I know that in my neighborhood of those actively involved members are certainly being "aware" as they go out to walk for their own personal exercise.  Although they may consider this a "block watch" activity it would not by any means fall into something that anyone other than that individual would have even the slightest right to regulate!

This is an issue of personal rights and responsibility and not one that such a group should so carelessly attempt to regulate.  Such an attempt will serve no productive purpose other than to diminish the groups credibility and alienate individuals from attending.  

This group went to great lengths to declare themselves "non political" and as such should remain.  This policy has no more place in this group than would a policy involving abortion, prayer, or any other similarly controversial issue.

[jay]

From the Youngstown Block Watch Manual

"No person will be permitted to be armed while performing any block watch function.  Armament means any handgun, rifle, shotgun, of any weapon that propels a projectile."[/size][/b]