"Frack Free Mahoning Screwing Blacks of Youngstown!"

[Rick Rowlands]

Harvest gravity?  We harvest gravity every day but it goes by the name "hydro" as in "hydroelectricity".  The action of falling water through impellers to turn generators.   The problem with harnessing gravity in other ways is that there must be some medium through which gravity acts upon that can also be used to produce some form of energy that we can use.  With hydropower the forces of nature serve to "reset" the system by moving water to the higher place to begin falling again.  To do that artificially requires that more energy is expended than would be generated, so it is a losing proposition. 

Dark colors absorbs the heat from sunlight, but not nearly enough to be of much benefit on a large scale.  You can use your example of hot water in a garden hose to build a solar powered water heater; there are many people who have already done that.  Here is a commercially available product: http://www.thermo-dynamics.com/solar_boiler.html

About fracking, you really have no clue about the invasive methods that have been used in this very valley to produce energy in the past.  Much of this valley is hollow, undermined by coal mines in the mid 1800s.   We have been researching the extent of coal mines in the area and there are not many places where there are not mines.  Probably one under your house.  Having large open areas fifty to a hundred feet under our feet hasn't caused us any problems, and even clinton wells going down a couple thousand feet has not caused an problems.  So the utica wells that go down three times as far will not have any problems either.  But it is something for the lefties to rally around.  Opposition to gas exploration is a liberal dream.  By protesting one industry you get to strike a blow at profit, capitalism, carbon based energy, property rights and our first world lifestyle; all things that liberals despise.   Facts and truth get in the way so they are minimized and scoffed at by tugging at the heart strings.  Replace facts with emotion, truth with innuendo and speculation, and sooner or later you have people taking actions against their very own wellbeing. 

[kenneyjoe330]

What you say about Mill Creek Park and the area around it is austonishing is to say the least.  I know nothing of thermodynamics and it's laws.  I have said several times before that I sure am not the brightest bulb in the chandelier.  What I do know is small stuff like this:  If it snows a few inches, it is cold - say in the teens - and the sun is out then I can clean my "blacktop" drive and I am always amazed how clean it can stay with the sun beating down on the blacktop.  There is something going on there in terms of energy (I understand that oil has a lot to do with the "blacktop" drive - but so does the color black and I will admit that the black metal handrail is pretty cold  )  I am also amazed when I leave my green law hose, shut off but filled with water on the lawn on a fairly hot day then when you turn the water on - the water that was in the hose comes out pretty hot (till the cold water comes out) Now there is an exchange of energy there someplace.      Besides water we have not harvested the energy that is in gravity.  I am sorry that in our discussion we have lost the thread of this post which was "frack Free Manoning Screwing Blacks of Youngstown"
This thread is really moot - however IMHO fracking is not all that it is cracked up to be 

[Youngstownshrimp]

Kennyjoe,
I thought you have rental properties so you should have more than 50'X150'?  Yes, you will receive royalties for your lot once a unit is permitted and your lot is included.  Think about this, all of the 40 acre Clinton well units on the south and westside surrounding Mill Creek all consist of small city lots grouped to create 40 acre units, astonishing isn't it?
As far as your belief that alternative energy exist in abundance to displace combustion energy, you need to read more ...........about the laws of thermodynamics.

[Billy Mumphrey]

You would think the church would sell the property by now. I would think real estate prices have gone up since they bought the land.

[Towntalk]

Judging from the outcome of the meeting, the church is going to do absolutely nothing with that property just as they haven't lo these past 30 years. All talk, no action. It's too bad some deep pocket doesn't come forward with an offer that the church can not refuse and actually do something more than talk.

[Rick Rowlands]

That ought to keep the antifrackers occupied, and supply us with unlimited entertainment.  Demonstrations, human chains, mass arrests...

[Youngstownshrimp]

Billy maybe right, that land has been leased and is in production with the Clinton formation for decades.   And of course 3500 acres of Mill Creek park is HBP (held by production).
As I worte here months ago, Total of France the partner of  Chesapeake who are drilling like mad in Columbiana should move on Mill Creek once infrastructure is established.  Mill Creek park is surrounded by 150 Clinton wells for decades.

[Billy Mumphrey]

Call me crazy, but I believe the first new major area in the city of Youngstown to be fracked will be the old Idora Park property.

[Rick Rowlands]

Kenneyjoe, as to your concern about the geologic effects of oil and gas extraction:
http://askville.amazon.com/geological-effect-removing-oil-underground/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=7186071
http://www.lifeslittlemysteries.com/63-can-oil-extraction-cause-earthquakes.html

One of the basic precepts of language and communication are common definitions for words and concepts.  When you speak of THE industrial revolution you are referring to the period from 1760 to the 1830s.  That is by definition a "long time ago". 

[kenneyjoe330]

All this really means is that anyone who owns and inch of ground in Mahoning county will see revenue from their piece of ground.  Money will flow from energy and like the industrial revolution which was begun by energy long ago.  Youngstown will see prosperity and wait till we all see the innovation that the next generations will come forth with.  New technology will germinate where there is energy.

I do not quite understand    How close to "The Site" would I have to be to receive all this revenue?  I just have a 50 X 150 lot and even if I am opposed to this and do not sign anything would I still receive revenue ?   
I never thought about energy beginning the industrial revolution - I alway thought the industrial revolution was started with mass production of products needed or wanted by the masses.  NOT denying that ENERGY was needed for this production.  If I read your view correctly it says "Oh we have a lot of energy here lets do something with it" rather than "Oh lets make a product and we can use this particular enery to make the wheel turn."
I hope and pray that a newly germinated technology will develop where by we would have less expensive, less intrusive, less polutant than fracking.  I believe we have a type of this already - Where does all the energy come from that takes pictures and munipulates satalites in outter space?   Other than with water we have not figured out how to munipulate gravity.  Did you ever wonder about taking all this gas and oil out of the ground eventually will cause problems with "the earth itself"  A person can give a pint of blood lets say once a month - if they give more it would not be good for their body.  How much gas and oil can you get out of this blue marble we live on and how fast does it take to replenish what was taken ?  I suppose it all has to do with Time and Money 
One of the reasons I think we do not see eye to eye is in your statement that the industrial revolution happened a long time ago.  I feel like it was just yesterday and I can feel it's breath on my neck.  For all that the revolution has had for "the good" in the material sence it has and continues to have great problems in the spiritual and even physical sence.

[Youngstownshrimp]

All this really means is that anyone who owns and inch of ground in Mahoning county will see revenue from their piece of ground.  Money will flow from energy and like the industrial revolution which was begun by energy long ago.  Youngstown will see prosperity and wait till we all see the innovation that the next generations will come forth with.  New technology will germinate where there is energy.

[kenneyjoe330]

Congradulations - You Won    I suppose all you hard efforts paid off  OR may pay off 

[Youngstownshrimp]

Today is the day that Youngstown either follows the Fractivist community organizers and sends a clear message to the Global Energy Companies that we would rather suck up energy but not partake in the development of it, even though we are blessed with Mahoning county having entirely valuable wet gas.
Or.....will the old conservative democrat ancestry course through our veins and the industrial spirit of Youngstown rise to defeat what we never were, "Takers," but "Makers."
"Long Live Free Enterprise!"
Vote "NO" to the death of Youngstown Industrialism!

[Youngstownshrimp]

I must have been mistaken, you stated that you were near my wife and I at the meeting so I assumed you were the landlord who addressed the room.
You may also be mistaken, I do not remember making a statement that the Mahoning river is clean.
BTW, I read science and technology is ready to recycle all frack water with a filtering system that will negate the clean water protest.

[kenneyjoe330]

It is obvious from any of my posts on this forum that I am NOT part of any majority.  I am an about as independent as you can get.  My property holdings are minimal - to say the least     I lean very much toward the Green Party's thoughts on energy development.  I know I have said this before and you must have forgotten - if you are so very keen on this particular form of energy development then I would like to know why you just don't get your drinking water directly out of the Mahoning River which you claimed was CLEAN.  You claimed that is was cleaned by the very """PEOPLE""" who made it dirty.   I have made the claim before that I am not the brightest bulb in the chandelier but I know a good salesman makes good money and an excellent salesperson can make a "killing".  Sorry if you can not catch my drift.  I DO support energy development and I made NO public comment at the 7WCC meeting.