Earthquakes and Youngstown, a history

[irishbobcat]

YNGAIR....

Fine. Then let's just leave it at that. Good day.

[YNGAir Supporter]

Irish,

I am not comparing patterns. I am simply saying we live in an earthquake prone area.

[irishbobcat]

YNGAIR.....

My point is that the pattern of Youngstown earthquakes do not follow the same pattern
of earthquakes recorded in Ashtabula County in 2001.

The data you presented is like comparing apples to oranges. That is my opinion.

[YNGAir Supporter]

Irish,

Interesting how you leave out the one that happened just 6 days before. Or the three that happened within 5 months before and the three that happened a year after.

My point is we are in an earthquake ridden zone and have been for centuries.

I have admitted in my posts the wells could be helping to create these tremors, and have said we have to keep all options open because of the history of our geology. You on the other hand are showing you have a one sided and minded view point.

[irishbobcat]

YNGAIR....

One does not need to be a geologist to tell the difference between an initial earthquake and when
aftershocks occur.

One only has to have the desire to do research on the subject, have the ability to read and comprehend.


What is the difference between an initial earthquake and aftershocks? Let me cite the following
reference material...

From Http://www.history.com/topics/earthquake

Aftershocks, Foreshocks, and Swarms
Usually, a major or even moderate earthquake of shallow focus is followed by many lesser-size earthquakes close to the original source region. This is to be expected if the fault rupture producing a major earthquake does not relieve all the accumulated strain energy at once. In fact, this dislocation is liable to cause an increase in the stress and strain at a number of places in the vicinity of the focal region, bringing crustal rocks at certain points close to the stress at which fracture occurs. In some cases an earthquake may be followed by 1,000 or more aftershocks a day.
Sometimes a large earthquake is followed by a similar one along the same fault source within an hour or perhaps a day. An extreme case of this is multiple earthquakes. In most instances, however, the first principal earthquake of a series is much more severe than the aftershocks. In general, the number of aftershocks per day decreases with time. The aftershock frequency is roughly inversely proportional to the time since the occurrence of the largest earthquake of the series.


Let's look at your data from the Astabula earthquake of 2001.....


Ashtabula recorded a 4.5 earthquake on 1/26/01. The next four earthquakes in this area were
recorded within 2 hours of this quake. Thus, these next four earthquakes were obviously aftershocks
that often are associated with an earthquake of 4.5.

Again, One only has to have the desire to do research on the subject, have the ability to read and comprehend.

You should try it next time.

I may not be a geologist, but I know more about this topic than you do. Please educate yourself.

[YNGAir Supporter]

I didn't know you were a geologist and could tell when initial earthquakes happen (the big one) and when all the after shocks occur.

Mother nature is always unpredictable.

[irishbobcat]

Dear Why?Town.....

Thank you for the nice compliment.

I have resolved to be a better poster on this forum in 2012.

While I am sure we will continue to have our political differences on
many subjects within the coming year, I do look forward to keeping the
discussions more civil and fact based with you this year.

I hope I can do the same with others, but it looks like that will be a long shot with
a certain individual.

Happy New Year!

[irishbobcat]

Dear Mr. Eiselstein:

Again, I ask you, If you posted within the past week that you were going to stop responding to my posts,
then why do you continue to do so?

If you find it difficult to keep your word on this pledge and promise, how can you be trusted to keep your word on other agreements
that you propose? Can you be trusted in business deals? can you be trusted to follow legal, binding agreements?
Or as we used to say when we were little kids, are you just an Indian-giver?


This male-crush you continue to have with me, this desire of my attention that you crave is really starting to get freaky.

I guess I am somewhat at fault because I continue to give you attention. I do so because I feel if I would stop the attention
this would only anger you and you might start taking more drastic measures to seek my attention.  Please seek help as soon as possible.

The other thing that I now find troubling is the fact that you now post false statements about my wife. To hint that my wife engages
in domestic violence to me is uncalled for. You do not know my wife and my wife has no beef with you. If you want to insult me, that's fine.
Please do not insult my wife. Please try and be a man. Your fight is with me and not my wife.

Please take a moment and step back to examine your own postings here on this forum. If you truly believe you are an outstanding businessman
and community member, your actions of this forum do paint a different picture. You sir, are a warped person, a loser, and a danger to our local
society.

[irishbobcat]

YNGAIR.....

I did look at the link regarding the 9 earthquakes recorded in Ashtabula in 2001.....

I think you need to examine and study the details of those quakes. It seems to me you
simply saw 9 earthquakes being reported and assume that if Ashtabula had 9 in one year
and Youngstown had 11 in one year, then the Youngstown quakes are one and the same.

But let's look more closely at the Ashtabula data from 2001.....

Ashtabula recorded a 4.5 earthquake on 1/26/01. The next four earthquakes in this area were
recorded within 2 hours of this quake. Thus, these next four earthquakes were obviously aftershocks
that often are associated with an earthquake of 4.5.

The next earthquake that hit Ashtabula  happened on June 3. An aftershock was then recorded on June 5.

Yes, there were 9 total earthquakes in 2001, but in reality, they were concentrated around only two different
specific moments in time.

The pattern of earthquakes in Youngstown in 2011 do not follow this same pattern. The earthquakes around Youngstown
have not followed a pattern of being a series of aftershocks happening within a 2 hour timeframe. They have happened as
separate events at separate times. Please look at the table again and I believe you can see the differance.

[Why?Town]

YNG Supporter.....You consider our recent earthquake activity normal?

the information you posted states a total of 6 earthquakes reported since 1986....

The average distance being some 40 miles away from the city.....


We have had 11 earthquakes with the PAST YEAR.....all within some 2 miles of the injection site....


If brine injection did start in June 2010, could it not be possible that it took over a year of constant pressure from this
one well to eventually build up enough pressure to begin earthquake activity a year later?


There is a big difference between 6 earthquakes since 1986 some 40 miles away from Youngstown and 11 earthquakes within 1 year
in an area concentarted in a 2 mile area.....


I don't think 11 earthquakes in one year is just normal earthquake activty.  Your arguments are really just typical spin coming from
the pro fracking forces and lovers......

Injection wells and fracking need to be stopped in the valley before in begins.....

This is great post. Information, based on facts, being compared with other facts and the results used to support an argument. I don't see how anyone could have issue with it.

Good job Dennis!

[YNGAir Supporter]

In 2001, Ashtabula had 9 quakes in one year. They continue to have multiple quakes. Ohio sits in a fault zone.

http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/tabid/8296/Default.aspx

There have been many quakes in one area over a years time in other places as well.

Wells could be helping the cause, but it could also be a conincidence.

[Towntalk]

After the New Years quake, I would have no problems with outside geologists coming in and using such equipment as ground radar to examine the extent of local fault lines.

Certainly 11 quakes in a single year is not normal for our area, and as we can see from past history quakes in NEO are not all that usual like they are in California.

[irishbobcat]

YNGAIR,

Yes, there have been earthquakes in Lake, Ashtabula and even Portage counties.

But have earthquakes in those areas been as frequent as they have been in Mahoning County
over the past year and all within the same location as ours? I don't think so.

I believe you should begin to look at reseach on frequent eartquakes  in various other parts of this country
over the past few years. Parts of this country that are usually not prone to earthquakes like Youngstown.

Within the past few years areas of Arkansas, Colorado, Kansas, etc have also experienced a rash of many
earthquakes in a short timespan like we have here in Youngstown. And what did those earthquake areas have
in common with Youngstown? Those areas were also sites where new injection wells began operations.

Yes, there could be other explanations. But right now all of our resources should be utilized to study and determine
if injection wells are the cause for the recent rash of earthquakes in the valley. This course of action is not "jumping to conclusions."

But in the meanwhile, the use of injection wells must cease in the valley until we are certain that the process is safe.

The fact that you now must wait before you resume injecting wells should really not bother you.
If you had the patience to wait until 2010 to begin this process, what's wrong with waiting a bit longer to conduct tests and studies
to see if it is really safe?

[irishbobcat]

Ron Eiselstein,

Did you not post a few days ago that I was a waste of humanity and you were no longer going to waste
your time in writing responses to my posts?

Then what drives you to continue to post comments to me on these various threads time after time?

Do you have a male-crush on me?

Why do you constantly crave my attention? Is there a problem at home? Does your wife no longer show you
attention become of some physical shortcomings?

The fact that you continue to address me with insulting and disrepectful posts is the behavior of one who is in pain and
cries for attention. Attention you cannot get through positive behavior. Thus, you resort to negative behavior in order to be notice.

This negative behavior is often displayed in order to feel superior. Perhaps you were bullied in your youth, or maybe even sexually
assaulted. After years of being a victim you now believe that by becoming the bully yourself will help erase the pains of hurtful
events in your younger life.

Consulting professional help is a must. Proper medications can be prescribed to help you with your problems. These medications will
help you feel good about yourself and reduce your need and urge to engage in disrespectful behaviors.

Help is out there for you Ron Eiselstein. You need to man up and make that call to seek professional help. That is the first step in your road
to recovery.

Godspeed, Ron Eiselstein...

[Towntalk]

Earlier earthquakes that were felt in Youngstown

August 12, 1929 – Near Cleveland
March 8, 1943 NEO/Pa
September 4, 1944 - Canada
November 6, 1968 Southern Illinois
July 27, 1980 – 5.1 Ohio/Kentucky border
January 31, 1986 - 5.5 Near Chardon, Ohio
November, 1988 – 6.0 Canada
September 25, 1998 – 5.2 15 miles NE of Sharon