Challenges for Youngstown

[iwasthere]

Allan, you might find it interesting that a co-worker of mine, who owns a duplex in Boardman, says the Youngstown landlord-tenant laws are more strict in Youngstown than in Boardman.

if they are enforced

[northside lurker]

Allan, you might find it interesting that a co-worker of mine, who owns a duplex in Boardman, says the Youngstown landlord-tenant laws are more strict in Youngstown than in Boardman.

[Youngstownshrimp]

I first started investing in real estate in Virginia in the 80's .  When I came to Ytown, I thought rental property was a piece of cake.  Boy did I get my ass handed to me, this area is definitely third world, this is why I exited rental ten years ago and now only concentrate in land.  Rentals are a loosing battle, the only way to rent is thru section 8, because they make the tenants responsible for damages.

[AllanY2525]

I wouldn't say that I'm one of the most qualified people when it comes to
real estate in Youngstown, as I'm strictly an amateur who owns a
few properties at this point.

I have been a landlord for about 12 years now, almost entirely in Maryland
however.  I'm still learning about all of the nuances of renting property in
Youngstown - it's a whole different ball game here, and definitely a whole
different "market".

[Youngstownshrimp]

Allan, you, JRS and I are probably the most qualified to speak about property in YTown.  For the last 30-40 years the City's approach has always been to govern investment property by placing total responsibility on the landlord.  This practice worked well thru the steel mill days, but have been disastrous and has single handily suppressed real estate to a phenomenon of negative value, never seen by any industrial country.  Why would any serious investor place his money in structures in Ytown if the landlord tenancy laws of Ohio have been thrown completely out.  Case in point, section 8 housing, facts show all over the country and in Ytown, that the house is always up to code before occupancy, tenant has "possession" legally and IF damaged other than "wear and tear" occur during "possession" , tenant is sought to pay for damages or loose their rent subsidy.  Sit in the housing court for a week or two and see how the real estate investor has possession even though he cannot enter his property if leased and, you know you cannot make a tenant leave your property, only a judge can.  It's kind of like the water, a tenant can leave the water running for a week, not tell you and you will be responsible for the tab even after ten years of usage.

[AllanY2525]

Steve,

I totally respect your opinion, but I feel that the tenant is responsible for keeping up the
premesis in which they live - I'm not referring to repairs, etc but to keeping it clean, the
outside yard free and clear of trash, etc.

I've had more than one tenant that passed the criminal background check, credit check,
etc - only to "go bad" once they were in the apartment.  Having a landlord-tenant
registry that gives information on both landlords and tenants would only be fair.

If a tenant can report a bad landlord, a good landlord should be able to report a bad
tenant.  To have one, without the other, is not fair.

I try my best to keep my property decent looking - I have a crew that cuts the grass, takes
care of yard work year round, etc - but the tenant is still responsible for things like picking
up trash that might get thrown in the yard, taking the trash out to the curb every week, etc.

The landlord/property owner has most of the responsibility for their rental property, but in
in the end it takes both the landlord and the tenant, working together, to make things work
for everyone.

As far as making the lease "strict" - no landlord can just write their own ticket, giving
them carte blanche when it comes to lease agreements.  The lease agreement must still
fall within the local laws  - any clause in the lease that conflicts with a local law, regulation
or ordinance is null and void in that juridiction.  It doesn't take a lawyer to tell someone
this.

[john r. swierz]

      As they should do, it's their investment. I know several good landlords and they are strict.

[john r. swierz]

  Allan,
I have been told by lawyers that a lease can say anything that you want and that if the tenant signs it they are agreeing with the terms of the lease . No ordinance that I am aware of dictates that. Now section 8 spells out the things that will get you evicted.

[AllanY2525]

John,

A lease can only be as "tough" as city and county ordinances permit it to be.
Currently, the law tends to favor the tenant over the landlord in Youngstown,
not the other way around.

It can take up to several weeks to get a bad tenant evicted in Youngstown for
something as straightforward as non-payment of rent, which is entirely too long.
If the tenant appeals the eviction, it can slow things down even more.

I have read that the landlord registration thing is coming also - but nowhere does it
mention anything about a registry for problem tenants.

[john r. swierz]

  I agree that they can not discrimate, but they can provide a tough lease that spells out ways that will get them out of the house. Many landlords just want to get someone in their houses, without a tough lease agreement  I also agree that our aging residents presents a challenge as some die, go live with family or a nursing home, it is tough to get young families in.

[john r. swierz]

   Beleive me! It is coming. Since I returned to council in 2008 I notice that crime has increased in the 7th Ward.

[AllanY2525]

John,

The city really, really needs to implement a tenant/landlord registry - one that cuts
both ways and tracks tenants and landlords alike who are detriments to their
neighborhoods.

Where I live, in Montgomery County, MD, there is such a registry.  Any landlord can check
the registry when screening rental applications in order to check the references for
prospective tenants before renting to them.  Any tenant can check the registry to see if
there are any negative entries regarding their prospective landlord, before deciding to move
into a rental property.

The only way to fairly address the whole issue of problem tenants and landlords would be to
implement such a registry in Youngstown, and to actively encourage both tenants and
landlords to make use of it. 

A landlord cannot legally discriminate against a prospective tenant on the grounds of
race, religion, etc, etc - but a landlord has every legal right to refuse tenancy to someone
who does not pay their rent, sells drugs on the premises, disrespects others in the vicinity,
etc.

Once the city has begun to crack down on both bad landlords and bad tenants, things may start
to get better - but not until.

[joly1584]

You have several great points AllanY2525!

Another housing problem starting on the west side is the aging population and foreclosures.  The block we live on(near Volney Roger Middle School) has 3 houses vacant due to death and several of our neighbors are over the age of 70.  The houses aren't in bad shape but they are 50 years old.   There are 2 houses that I know of that are in foreclosure - 1 is being leased and the other was trashed before the people left and the bank is currently asking $32,900 which is less than half what is being asked for similar houses.

Families don't want to move to Youngstown because of the public schools and the fear that the crime will spread more into the west side.

[john r. swierz]

  While I don't have concrete numbers, it very close to 50/50%. The city would not require  tenant registry, the Mahoning Valley Real Estate Investors Association probably has a list

[AllanY2525]

I agree that landlords need to keep/bring their properties up to code, and a
landlord registry makes perfect sense as a vehicle that will help to accomplish
this - but what about all of the other residential properties in the city that are
owner-occupied?  I would love to be able to know, with some degree of accuracy,
what the ratio is between owner-occupied and rental properties in Youngstown.

I am a landlord, and I own rental property in the city.  The problems I face as a
landlord are:

1) Rents in Youngstown are so low, there is not much left to put into the property
after the bills are paid, ie: utilities, maintenance, repairs, property taxes, property
insurance, improvements, etc.  I want to put a new roof on my property - but the
cost of a new roof will more than zero out every dime of income (after expenses)
I will receive from this property - for the next three years!

2) Because of the jobs situation in Youngstown, it is very difficult to find good
tenants who have a stable income and will, therefore, pay their rent consistently
when it is due - and stay in their apartment long enough to make it possible for me
to continue to improve the rental property.  Despite this fact, I have been slowly
working on my property - as I am able -  to fix it up and make it better.

3) Because the city has no TENANT REGISTRY it is often difficult to find out what
kind of tenant a prospective renter might be prior to renting to them.  I totally support
a landlord registry -  but who is keeping track of the bad tenants? 

This is a two way street, folks - bad tenants are just as much a problem as bad landlords.
Tenants who disrespect their neighbors, who do not take care of the apartments they rent,
who do not keep trash picked up and yards clean, who engage in illegal activities and pose
a threat to their neighbors, etc.

You can evict bad tenants, but without a means of keeping track of the bad ones, they are
simply free to move on to their next apartment - and continue to be a detriment to other
neighborhoods, elsewhere in the city.

Without good paying jobs, how are folks who own and live in their homes supposed to
keep up with maintenance, repairs and improvements to their home and put food on the
table at the same time?  The costs involved with maintaining a home are heavy - especially
with the older housing stock in the city.  Much of it is at or near the 100 year old mark and
these houses are very expensive to heat let alone maintain or upgrade.

As far as crime prevention in the city, how is the Mayor supposed to combat
the problem when the city's current budget deficit is making it necessary to
lay off police officers and shut down part of the county jail?  You can' put the
entire blame for the crime situation on the Mayor - he has to work with what
he currently has, and I think he's doing the best he can given the amount of
resources the city currently has.

As far as the problem with the city's schools, there is enough blame to go
around for everyone: The teachers who don't care, parent's who don't
support and/or reinforce at home what the schools are trying to teach the kids
in the classrom, and problem students who disrupt classrooms, abuse other
students, just don't care, etc and people on the school board who are not
competent in their jobs.

When the city has more revenue, then the city will be able to do more for
the citizens of Youngstown - but not until.  Youngstown does deserve credit
for the new businesses that have been attracted to the area in the last few
years, but in the end it's good jobs that pay a living wage and the return of
the middle class to the city that will pay for the cost of rebuilding its
neighborhoods.