Difference Between Conservatives and Liberals

[Towntalk]

  You got it Dennis 

I'm just glad to see that Youngstown is diversifying in spite of what those slimmy worms and miserable roaches at Forbes has to say about us, especially Crosseyed Steve Forbes.

[irishbobcat]

Now Towntalk, I have been nice all week...cut me some slack.....

[Dan Moadus]

Please, don't misunderstand me. It is a wonderful thing for both cities, and the region. I just have many questions about it. Mainly due to my mistrust of government. And I object to spending taxpayers dollars to aid big (foreign) corporations. Spending 20 million dollars to create 400 jobs works out to $50,000 per job. I know that my little business could have created six jobs if you gave me $300,000 to invest in an expansion. And I bet you could have found many more local businesses that would have created jobs at $50,000 a pop. And as I said, when a company is prepared to invest 900 million dollars another 20 million for site preparation is small potatoes. It certainly did not make or break this deal.

Here's the big problem with it. If times were prosperous and our Country had budget surpluses, it would be easier to rationalize the expenditure. But times aren't prosperous, and our country is taking on unsustainable debts. That 20 million wasn't just laying around somewhere, it had to be borrowed, and charged to our children. Are we that selfish that we are willing to pass on these large, almost un-payable debts to them, even for a good cause? And what about the other 434 Congressmen's districts, don't you think they have worthy projects that will create jobs as well? If it was just our 20 million it wouldn't be so bad, but it millions upon millions of dollars being dished out by all the Congressman, not to mention the Senators is bankrupting our Country.

[AllanY2525]

The Girard City School District will receive more than $1 million annually in new property tax revenues because of the expansion.

Now THAT'S what I call "return on investment".  I'm sure that Youngstown will also be
receiving a rather large chunk of tax revenues on an ongoing basis, as a result of this
expansion project.

The $20 million that will be spent on remediation of toxic waste, etc for the land parcel
will be money well-spent... and the revenues generated by the payroll taxes, property taxes,
and corporate taxes will pay a handsome return on the money invested, over time - which
means that the money spent will be regained.... and them some.

Then, of course, there's the fact that the folks working at the plant will be making decent
wages - and spending their hard earned dollars at local business establishments.

[Towntalk]

Manufacturing and Technology for 2/15/2010 states:

Vallourec & Mannesmann's announcement that the company will invest $650 million to build a new state-of-the-art small diameter rolling mill in Youngstown, Ohio and create 350 direct high-paying jobs in advanced manufacturing.

The agreement, which included annexation of Girard land to Youngstown, will result in the two communities sharing income tax revenues from V&M employees working in the new plant. The two cities also will share income tax revenue from the estimated 500 construction workers who will be working at the expansion site over the next two years.

The Girard City School District will receive more than $1 million annually in new property tax revenues because of the expansion.

http://mfrtech.com/articles/3074.html

Why isn't this a win for both cities?

[Towntalk]

Seeing that you are asking for our vote, politeness would not go amiss.

Actually perhaps I should tone down my own comments also and leave bad manners to Irishbobcat aka Dennis. 

[Dan Moadus]

Geez, that kind of changes things, I pictured you as a man. Can I still "rough" you up, or do I have to be more polite now. LOL

[Towntalk]

Wrong gender Dan.

Don't you think that V&M made a substantial investment of their own? The tax payers certainly aren't investing 100% if the cost nor even 50%.

And you should be on your knees thanking God that 350+ high paying jobs are coming to help bail out cities like Girard and Youngstown. And when you take into account the spin off jobs, there's an opportunity for Girard to go out and lure many of those spinoff jobs to Girard.

I'm sure the Girard Chamber of Commerce is looking into this even now.

[Dan Moadus]

I'm sure I could list many worthwhile projects as did "towntalk". My question to him though, is where is the money to come from, especially considering that the tax revenue barely pays for the day to day operation of our government.
Perhaps he can tell us where the 20 million dollars came from for the V&M Star project?

[Towntalk]

Now Mr. Traficant would give Ryan a run for his money, but the question is how he would be accepted by Congress were he to win.

[Towntalk]

Steve: I have to agree with you. Dan hasn't a clue about how Congress works, or at least that's the way it appears.

Quite honestly as far back as I can remember and I can remember Mike Kerwin when he was our Congressman the Federal Government provided funds to state and local projects.

If everyone thought the way he does we wouldn't have Kerwin Dam, we'd still be using the Mahoning River as our water supply, and we'd be driving on dirt roads.

There wouldn't be an FAA to control air routes, there would be no National Parks, their would be no Corps of Engeneers to oversee our dams and rivers.

None of these things are explicit in the Constitution, but are necessary for a well ordered society.

[ytowner]

After the news about V&M and the other projects that have come to Youngstown, I hardly think that Mr. Ryan has too worry much about Dan, yet I would get a kick out of a debate between the two of you.

Watching Ryan in debates on the House floor, he can certainly hold his own with little effort.

I may or may not like Ryan but when it comes to election day, I'll grit my teeth and cast my vote for the future of this district.

I don't plan on voting for Tim Ryan. I will call it today, if the White House screws these Delphi workers over with their pensions, we will see a Traficant v. Ryan war this November.

[Towntalk]

After the news about V&M and the other projects that have come to Youngstown, I hardly think that Mr. Ryan has too worry much about Dan, yet I would get a kick out of a debate between the two of you.

Watching Ryan in debates on the House floor, he can certainly hold his own with little effort.

I may or may not like Ryan but when it comes to election day, I'll grit my teeth and cast my vote for the future of this district.

[Youngstownshrimp]

I can see the difference between youth and wisdom.  Youth does not understand that in a basic partnership one partner's investment of 650 Mil is not the other partners return on their investment of 20 Mil.  This is dangerous math and thinking.

Dan's point is only showing that the 20 Mil investment should have been 15 Mil.  But what's 5 Mil when it's not our money?

[Dan Moadus]

Once again you misunderstand what I'm saying. I said, in so many ways, I don't think us spending 20 million had any impact one way or another in V&M's decision to expand here. The 20 million represents less than 3 percent of the total project cost, and wasn't going to kill or make the deal.

And, as I also said. At 50K a pop, I'll bet there would be many local businesses that if given a million dollars to fund some expansion would have hired 20 people.

I own an auto paint shop. Give me $300,000 and I'll add on a semi-tractor paint shop and hire six people.