Making WRTA a Success

[Towntalk]

YtownNewsandViews

What do you think about Rapid Transit extending out to the airport?

[ytowner]

I voted in support of the WRTA on this past ballot because I knew oil prices would increase ridership on public transportation. Now I am sure there are a lot of people out there that wish they'd switch their vote.

O well...

[Towntalk]

Just thought of something, What is the traffic pattern and count on Fifth Avenue? I know that it's heavy in the morning and afternoon for YSU traffic, and when YSU has home games, so if a line were to go up Fifth Avenue, then car traffic would have to be diverted one street west or there could be traffic jams during peak traffic hours leaving Fifth Avenue free for emergency traffic. The rest of the day presents no real problem.

Of course YSU traffic could be diverted to Elm Street which is a main route into YSU anyway.

[Towntalk]

I can buy that.

Unless I'm mistaken the City Street Department and County Engeneer's office could design a system for trackage north and south and WRTA could use the same kind of streetcars that are inuse in Pittsburgh.

As I said, running two cars north and south would really help starting at the present WRTA Station and ending at Southern Park Mall and Eastwood Mall.

At a point beyond the Giant Eagle plaza in Liberty, the streetcar could go high-speed to the Eastwood Mall since it could avoid normal street traffic and have its own right of way.

[irishbobcat]

I guess what I meant by studies is blueprints on how a system could be built....

Dennis Spisak

[Towntalk]

A simple trip to Pittsburgh and Columbus would do more to educate our officials than 5000 gillion studies that are written by a gaggle of pointy headed bureaucrats then tossed onto the pile of 5000 gillion other studies that go unread.

Studies cost thousands of tax dollars ... a trip to Pittsburgh or Cleveland or Columbus cost a couple of hundred dollars.

Better still, go online to the links that I recently posted and do a little serious reading free to get all the information needed.

http://www.1kfriends.org/Transportation/WI_Transportation_Projects_/Streetcars.htm

http://www.downtowncolumbus.com/publications/CommunityStreetcarCoalitionPres.pdf

Needless to say, I have no use for "studies" ... no, I lie ... change that to utter contempt.

Just look at the hundreds of "studies" that EDATA has compiled since 1980 none of which have been implemented.

How many of these studies have you sat down and read from cover to cover other than studies that actually impact your work at school?

[irishbobcat]

A study would have to be done on how to plan such a route. My point is simply again we see other communties with such systems already in place, especially using the systems to tie their urban college campus to the outer areas of the city and suburbs to reduce traffic and pollution.

These are the types of projects we need state and federal legistlators looking into. Nothing against classic cars, but improving mass transit should be more of a priority for Tim Ryan then getting more money for the Packard Car Museum.

[Towntalk]

Again Dennis, we would have to assume that the vacated streets would allow for a direct line from point A to point B, and that is highly unlikely.

Remember, while the Boardman route could use the old Y&S right of way, the Liberty route would be a whole new issue. How would you vacate streets for example on the upper North side that are already occupied. You can't very well displace hundreds of families in the area between Broadway and Gypsy Lane, and South of Broadway you have a major hospital and a brand new housing development.

Running a single track up the center of Fifth Avenue would allow for good traffic flow since you would need only one street car, and that would not interfere with emergency traffic (Fire, Police and Ambulances) to St. Elizabeth and North Side Hospitals.

[irishbobcat]

I agree with Jay and towntalk.....

either use vacant streets or have their own lines of the right of way like they do in Cleveland.......

A Boardman/downtown-YSU/Liberty-Belmont Ave line would be a good start.....


Dennis Spisak

[Towntalk]

Here are linls to some very informative information about streetcars today:

http://www.1kfriends.org/Transportation/WI_Transportation_Projects_/Streetcars.htm

http://www.downtowncolumbus.com/publications/CommunityStreetcarCoalitionPres.pdf

The second link has a number of great photos showing streetcar use in a number of cities today.

[Towntalk]

I haven't been there in years, but Cleveland's RTA (Rapid Transet Authority) has (had) streetcars that ran from downtown Cleveland to outlining communities. These streetcars didn't use regular roadways but had their own lines.

If we had such an RTA here, one running to Boardman and one running to Liberty, both comparatively short distances, it might not only be cost effective, but also quicker.

The one going to Boardman could use the old Y&S right of way, but a new right of way would have to be created from downtown Youngstown to Liberty. This means that property along that right of way would have to be acquired.

Streetcars use a different gauge track that do trains, and the route would have to be in a reasonably straight line from station to station, and the only area that would fit would be along Fifth Avenue, and with so many major institutions in that corridor, that would negate an RTA type of streetcar since we couldn't cut in to such institutions as St Elizabeth Hospital or Stambaugh Auditorium.

If the North line were to run on the East side if Fifth Avenue, but parallel with it, all those magnificent homes would have to loose their front yards, if not the homes themselves.

As to using abandoned streets, the problem is that they are scattered and couldn't be used to make a direct connection between the downtown station and the end of the lines, so streets would have to be used (Fifth Avenue and Market Street) for tracks.

Remember, when Youngstown ran streetcars, two narrow gauge streetcar tracks ran down the center of the streets, and one lane was available on either side for car and truck traffic.

[jay]

The return to streetcars would work better if the right of way was not shared with other road traffic.  As we vacate roadways under the 2010 Plan, perhaps some of the former streets could be the path traveled by future streetcars.

[Towntalk]

Serious questions:

Where would we get the money for:

[1] Infrastructure materials and construction
[2] The Trams themselves
[3] Maintenance of the infrastructure
[4] The daily cost of operation (electric bill)

We know that the problem that WRTA is having was due to cuts of State moneys, and there is little indication that the state would allocate Youngstown the millions of dollars that would be needed. We do have a fighting chance for federal funds, but they must be matched with both state and local matching funds. Does the city have the kind of money that they would have to put out? I doubt it.

Another question:

Supposing that this could become a reality, how many routes would there be?

Would there be tracks to lay, or would they function like the electric buses that use to operate here such as the Market Street - Campbell - Idora Park?

To lay tracks, roads would have to be torn up to lay down track beds and the tracks. The city would have a hefty bill just on this.

I appreciate the environmental considerations, nor do I oppose going to electric trams (By the way, since they would use electricity and coal is used in the majority of this country's power plant, there would still be an environmental impact.)

Just questions.

[irishbobcat]

Could WRTA Change to a Light Rail Tramway and be Successful?

May 23, 2008


It's Memorial Day weekend, 2008. Gas stands at $3.99. The future is pretty clear, there may be no cap for gas prices in the next 3-5 years. Public Transportation may again become the way many people will begin to commute in the valley. While the WRTA bus levies fail, could the WRTA switch over to a light rail Tramway and be successful?

According to the web site Light Rail Now, The latest new French light rail tramway opened in the relatively small city of Mulhouse (population about 112,000), located in the southern region of Alsace – and the public has welcomed it with overwhelming enthusiasm. On 13 May 2006, the tramway was "previewed" to the Mulhouse public, and on 20 May it was officially opened with a grand ceremony.

The new tramway system –consists initially of two light rail transit (LRT) routes, totaling 12 kilometers (about 7 miles), with 24 station-stops and a fleet of 27 tramcars.

Eventually the system will be extended to 19.7 km (12.2 miles), with 38 station-stops, at a total cost about US $442 million); ridership is forecast to reach 87,000 per day. The cost calculates to about $22 million/km, or about $36 million/mile.

Extension of the system will be achieved in stages. In 2009, the Mulhouse-Kruth Tram-Train will be launched. Then, in 2011, the entire urban system is scheduled for completion.

At the May 13th public "launch" of the tramway, the whole city was engulfed in a splendid festival, with free rides on the trams, and an array of festivities, including music, dances, special entertainment, and loads of fun. Crowds enthusiastically boarded the trains for a free chance to experience the new system.

At the May 20th official opening, after traveling in an inaugural railcar from the Soléa depot (carbarn), French president Jacques Chirac, accompanied by Mulhouse mayor Jean-Marie Bockel and various other dignitaries, hailed the tramway project as "evidence of a dynamic city, a city where respect for enduring development goes together with determination and progress."
The LRT system, locally called the Tram-Train, is designed to serve Mulhouse urban neighborhoods as well as five other towns (Kingersheim, Wittenheim, illzach, Riedisheim, and Lutterbach). According to the latest notice from the agency, the tramway will operate from 05:00 to 23:00 daily, with headways of 6 to 8 minutes.

Could a WRTA Light Rail Tramway help create better mass transit for the Mahoning Valley? Light rail and heavy rail tend to be more cost effective to operate than buses. The investment in a light or heavy rail system is not only economically efficient in the long term; it also has fewer impacts on the environment than highways. Two rail tracks have the same holding capacity as 16 lanes of highway. Rail also uses 35% to 40% less energy than cars.

As the Independent Green Party Candidate for State Representative of the 60th District, I would work with the state of Ohio increasing funding for mass transit in its urban areas. Ohio residents are deprived of a multitude of transportation options. Increasing state funding for operating and capital costs of mass transit would provide a better opportunity for light rail tramways that could save WRTA and transportation needs for the poor, working, and middle class.

Dennis Spisak-Independent Green Party Candidate For State Representative-60th Dsitrict

Campaign web site: Http://votespisak.tripod.com