City Schools

[AllanY2525]

Well,

I hope nobody mis-understood the point I was speaking to in my previous posts on this thread,
but I agree with all who are of the opinion that the Public School System is - and has been - failing
a lot of students.

My only point was that discipline has to be better enforced in our schools like it used to be,
so that the kids that are NOT acting out, hurting others, etc can get the best possible
quality of education available to them - in whatever school they might be going to and wherever
it might be located in this country and with whoever is in their classrooms teaching them, whatever
resources are available to them, etc.  A lot of very good and talented teachers can do lots with
very little - PROVIDED they have the right classroom environment in which to teach their
students.

If kids are gonna thrive in school, they have to have a safe and undistracted environment in
which to learn.  For the kids who get themselves removed from school because of behavioral
problems - YES - I agree that MUCH more needs to be done.

Pres. Bush said "no child left behind", but he left a LOT of them behind in his tenure.  Hopefully
the next President and his (or HER) administration will do more, pay better attention to what's
going on in our education system - and put more INTO the system.

As a political independent, I look forward to the next election in 2008 - hopefully we'll get some
new blood (whether Rep. or Dem. is elected) with some new ideas - or at least some better
ones......

[Towntalk]

This is just an idea, but one worth considering.

We have teachers among the members of this group. Why can't we ourselves set up a comittee to gather up books and distribute them to children in need.

I myself have over 10 years worth of National Geographics that I don't use any more.

The teachers in our group could lead up this committee because they have the contacts that would assure that they got ito the right hands.

Just an idea.

[Mary]

I love the book idea. My daughter has at least 50 books that are to young for her and i am not sure what to do with. I really don't want to give them to goodwill to sell. I would rather give them to someone that GIVES them to children.

Any one know of anything like this?

[Towntalk]

On the Home Page, right under the American Flag at my web site  you will find material on American Education that I just put up there. There are two transcripts and an article.

http://farrell-report.tripod.com

I will keep adding to that category as fresh material comes to my attention.

We are faced with a very serious problem that must be resolved, but we must also be careful not to stereotype.

I've always believed that early intervention can go a long way towards countering home environment, but it takes dedicated teachers who are willing to work outside the box.

Get a child interested in books at a young age and help them with their reading, and you've taken a giant step.

I'd personally like to see an organization started here in Youngstown who would gather up all the books they can lay their fingers on ... sort them out by age level and make them available free of charge to children in the First to Fifth grades to keep.

Goodwill is a good place to start. In fact, they should be called upon to sponsor such a program. They get tons of books each year and surely they should be willing to see to it that they get to needy children.

This isn't the ultimate solution, but just a start. but it's better than doing nothing.

[Mary]

 I DO  think the work being done is good. I am sure they are making progress. The point i was making was the public education can not be held totally 100% accountable for the lack of education in youths from at risk areas.  Also how do those programs get started? Someone must come up with them There has to be an exchange of ideas some where along the way. Why can't Youngstown be the next area to come up with a new program? Maybe one that works better then others?

Yes there are a lot of people that talk and then do nothing. There are even more that could care less about the kids. And i again agree that churches should help. Another consideration is that these kids need intervention at a young age not at 14. The longer they are left to their own devices the harder it becomes.

But what happens when we stop talking? Nothing still? We have to have the lines of communication open. You never know where the next great idea will come from. And of course there has to be strong people leading the fight. I am sure that the programs you mentioned faced issues getting started.

[Towntalk]

I wish that I had kept the transcripts of the news programs that spotlighted the work that is being done with the very kind of youth that you are speaking of and in the future I will set aside space on my web site to archive them for you to read. The sorry fact of the matter is that even though such programs as CNN Presents has devoted much attention to the topic the very people that should be looking into how these people are making changes just shrug their shoulders and make no effort to even try to apply them in their own communities.

Thousands of youth are crying out as loud as they can for help, but the very people that do the most talking aren't hearing them.

Thank God there are those who are answering the call.

The fact is that there has already been too much talk, and not enough action. Meetings ar called to discuss the problems, and after all the talk, the attendees go off to their suburban homes and promptly forget everything they heard.

We can't ever reach all the youth that need our help, but by God, in reaching even one, we've done a lot. That one will tell another, and that one will bring another.

A church in Chicago bought a farm and uses it to help girls in need living in one of the worst parts of the city. They get them off drugs, and show them that there is a better way. They aren't 100% successful, but their success rate has proven that what they are doing works. The key is that they are doing more than talk.

A Priest in LA set up a program to draw youth away from gangs, and his rate of success is good.

I agree that more needs to be done ... much more so where are the Valley churches? How many of them have an outreach program?

Public Education has failed the young people ... there is no question about that, so obviously they are as much a part of the problem as the families. They should be working with the churches to reach out to those young people needing help. There is no law that says a teacher can't, on his or her time work with a clergyman to develop a program for young people in "ghettos".

The whole secret is that we can't write off any young person which is exactly what our public schools are doing.

[Mary]

I did not say they could not help but they can not solve the total problem. Where did you learn values, morals, basic right from wrong? Educators can not go to these students homes and stay all night. What about the kids that go home at night and have to cook dinner, feed themselves do their own laundry get themselves up? What about the kids that see drugs and guns in their own homes? How can an educator help with that? And since we are on the subject how many black male teachers do you see in the public school system? How many see real role models on a daily basis? Role models that reflect their race and are successful? Let's not use the same old things to try and fix issues. Let's come together and have new ideas come out. I believe educators can inspire but they can not and should not be expected to solve all. They can inspire SOME, not all. As i said before and no one actually responded to is the deeper issues!
I am sure the programs that were mentioned are great. But there are other stats to be considered. New york graduates 38.9% of students, Cleveland 43.8% and Chicago 52.2%. I am sure that the programs they are running are helping and i would never say they should not be in existence but more needs to been done.

[Towntalk]

To say that a great educator can't inspire a youth in the "slums" is a CROCK PLAIN AND SIMPLE!

There are plenty of schools that specialize in working with youth from "war zone" neighborhoods and see them through to graduation.

Cleveland, Chicago and New York have such schools and their educators have been featured in many newspaper and magazine articles.

Are these the exception? Perhaps they are, BUT they should be the model for other school systems.

One of my High School teachers left the system to founded a company that specializes in educational materials for these schools.

It takes teachers that are totally committed to their calling, and are prepared to make sacrifices.

In New York for example, they have a specialized school of the arts that has one of the highest rate of grads that go on to college and one of the lowest dropout rates in the system and this school is in Harlem.

A dedicated teacher can do wonders breaking through the barriers to reach his or her students in amazing ways.

[Mary]

I totally agree with most everything that has been mentioned on this thread so far. Students should be removed if they are causing problems so that others can not learn. However, there is a deeper issue here. How do we convince young minority males & females that they can succeed in life by going to school and getting their education? How do we convince them that they will not be discriminated against for jobs and generally in life?  If you look at the stats on young black males they are dishearting. Now some will answer that is the parents problem. My question is: How can a mother living in a war zone, with drugs and violence all around, with no prospect of living any other way, maybe on drugs, with the child's father in jail tell their child they can get out? Most males living this way believe that they have no option but to follow in the footsteps of those before them, a life of crime and violence. With them believing this and no one showing them any different why would they care about school?
Not all can be blamed on society and the educational system. Some is the person's responsibility but seeing is believing and these kids think they have no hope. We need to find ways of saving these kids.

[AllanY2525]

There are "special" schools for "problem" students - ie: students who, for whatever reason
(problems at home, etc) cannot seem to get along with the other, mainstream students.

Does Youngstown/Mahoning County have any schools such as these?

[our2cents]

I also had many teachers that stand out in my head that demanded respect (another system, so no need to name them).  I had one back when they could paddle.  He was barely 5 ft tall and carried his holed paddle.  Everyone respected him, knew he was the boss of his class, and students learned enough to win the state math competition 5 years running under him.  And he wasn't afraid to whip a butt or two if you talked back or disrepected him more than once.

I also had 2 teachers that stayed late & then drove me the 8 miles home at different times, so I could get a grasp on anything that I didn't quite understand right.  Now, the teachers are afraid to even consider doing something like that...or they've become like half the US and don't want to work past the bell.  For some, the love of what they do is just gone.

[Towntalk]

I recall one teacher I had at Chaney. The first day in her class, she looked us in the eye and told us ... When you are in this class I'm the boss ... and after passing out a list of the things she demanded we have with us each and every day, she proceeded to be one of the best teachers I had.

Another teacher also demanded our respect with empthesis on demand.

Some boys tried to push her, and the next day she collected all our books for her class and passed out texts for the 5th grade level, and we had to use them for the rest of the year. Those boys never tried to push her again.

But the educator I respected most was Dr. Ricksucker (phonic) the Principal at Chaney.

I was having problems in one of my classes and he invited me into his office to discuss it, and then arranged for me to get some extra help. He was a real educator and a great gentleman who truely cared about the students under his control.

Another teacher ... also at Chaney also went out of her way to help her students above and beyond.

When I switched to Rayen, I was fortunate to have another great teacher ... Bob Hassey (English) who saw more in me than I did and worked with me to bring my grades up two grade points and encouraged me to become active in Student Government and the Drama Club.

Another at Chaney was Mr. McPhee (American History) a great teacher who inspired all his students.

I could go on about the teachers that had an impact on my life, and dare say that each and every one of thm were "Old School" teachers.

[our2cents]

I agree that problem students do not help and sometimes it seems better to boot them.  I think the big problem with that, is it leaves them out of school to keep seeing and learning bad behavior, with no parents stomping on them to straighten up.  The young students will then become our next generation of prisoners.  I miss the days of paddles in and out of school.  Now parents and schools are afraid of disciplining students. 

I also remember school and plenty of teachers that pushed in the right direction.  There are still quite a few teachers that try to do this every day, to have the kids laugh back thinking they know it all.

[Towntalk]

I have to agree with Allan.

Get rid of the SOCEOPATHS, DEMAND MORE OUT OF THE TEACHERS, AND DEMAND STRICT DICIPLINE and you will get results.

It's in those countries that enforce STRICT RULES that we are seeing the best results.

Before the DO GOODERS took over our school systems nationwide we always ranked in the top three, and now what do we have?

There is absolutely NO EXCUSE for why colleges and universities in America have to have remedial courses for students because they can't read, write, spell or do basic math. Rather, they should be raising their standards for admittance.

It's a bloody crime when students from India, Japan and South Korea do better than American students across the board.

It's been suggested that the time has come for us to shut down the PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM COMPLETELY and turn it over to private institutions and keep our bloody noses out of the way they are being run. We can't just walk in and tell the Catholic schools how to run their schools and they consistently turn out better students than the public schools. The same is true with other privately operated school systems.

I'm sick and tired of hearing the pathetic excuses that PUBLIC SCHOOL EDUCATORS try to cram down our throats to explain their failures.

[AllanY2525]

http://www.vindy.com/content/local_regional/298744582955412.php

Unfortunately, the schools can NOT fix negative behavior and problems that start at home that make it even harder for the schools to do their job.  So, the public believes negative hype and shuts down funding...negatively affecting the students that are working hard to get beyond the negative behavior of others. 

I disagree - the schools have the power to EXPEL or otherwise REMOVE students with chronic behavioural problem,
who are interfering with the rights of other, well-behaved students - SPECIFICALLY the right to a decent education,
WITHOUT the fear of being attacked, harassed, or otherwise prevented from having a decent, structured,
DISCIPLINED learning environment in which they can thrive.

You don't let an entire ship sink because one or two idiots on board keep knocking holes in the bottom of
it - you thrown the culprits overboard, and the ship sails on to reach its destination.  The schools in my
neighborhood consistently rank in the top 5 percent - NATION WIDE - and this is NOT entirely because
they have a bigger budget - it's mainly because they REMOVE problem students from the schools,
PROMTLY - with or without the help of their parents.  The schools here simply WILL NOT TOLERATE
such behaviours from the student body, PERIOD.