"Downtown Prosperity or Financial Scam?"

[AllanY2525]

Rick I totally agree....hence my remarks about the 3-D printing stuff, and my fervent
hopes that it will bring more tech jobs to the area.......I'm sure that some of these
( techie ) folks are eating lunch downtown, but still not enough traffic to carry the
businesses there just yet.

I hope the coming hotel project is a success....anything that brings in customers from out of
town brings in their out of town dollars as well.

[Rick Rowlands]

There simply are not enough of those tech jobs, and those who do work downtown most likely jump on 680 at 5 pm and que up at the Rt. 224 exit by 5:10 pm, with dinner at Alberinis, Carabbas, Springfield Grille etc. by 6:30.

[AllanY2525]

I.T. and tech jobs are something that is helping, as these jobs pay very well.  The
business incubator has been a boon to the city.  These jobs pay on average $50
to 60K per year.

The cost of living here in The DC area is much higher than it is in Youngstown, but
even here that kind of salary is considered a good, livable wage.

I sincerely hope that all of the 3-D printing stuff will spur more growth in the
technology sector for Youngstown and surrounding areas.  The fact that these
jobs are downtown also means lots of income tax revenues.

NO single institution (ie: YSU ), type of business, etc will save the city or the downtown
in and of itself - it will take a healthy mix of many diverse types of business to truly
make the downtown and the city something of what it once was.

Youngstown fell largely because of its depencence on a single industry.

[Towntalk]

Welfare and food stamps?

[Rick Rowlands]

I am Facebook friends with a couple of these downtown "artists", and I never see them post anything that would indicate that they have a real job.  I have to wonder what they do with their time. 

[Towntalk]

Point well taken. And if anyone thinks that YSU will be it's salvation, they need to think again. As for the arts being it's salvation, again, think again. Just how many retail stores have the arts fanatics drawn into the downtown business district.
I keep harping about my home town of just under 9000 having a thriving central business district because of the business leadership and not a lot of arts people. If a small town can have a prosperous business district there's no reason why a city of 80,000 can't do it.

[Rick Rowlands]

The goal seemed to have been the desire to bring in stuff that brings people downtown, but the people being brought downtown are not the same type that will eat at the restaurants.  I doubt many of those working at the call center have the means to eat out at DT restaurants on a regular basis.  Then there is the county office building, and many of those people are poor and just barely scraping by.  At the other end of town is the community college which is populated by struggling low income college students.  So on the face of it downtown appears to be booming, but when you look deeper you find that not very many of those people have any money and will not patronize the higher end restaurants.

[Towntalk]

We were brainwashed into believing that by encouraging more restaurants downtown that their presence would spur economic growth, but that never happened. Then we were brainwashed into believing that by turning empty buildings into up market living space that that would spur economic growth. No new retail store has opened in years. The old Dollar Bank Building has hit upon an idea to draw tenets that might work, but in the meantime, there remains the problem of a lack of interest in business men and women from opening up new retail businesses, nor are there many empty spaces to be filled, the stock of available spaces have been demolished and filled with parking spaces.

[AllanY2525]

Ron, are these institutions that are being referenced here businesses or are
they government institutions/agencies serving the general public?

Just wondering.....

[Towntalk]

   Sad 

What new business would want to set up shop downtown under these conditions? 

[Youngstownshrimp]

I again maybe the first to bring another mindset to the State-of-Youngstown today.....and I again maybe criticized for it.
Yes, it is exciting and impressive that Youngstown today is Robust or is it?   


For one, I patronize the businesses all over Youngstown and Youngstown is my Town.  In fact, Friday Jazz night is very successful now at Christopher's.  Having business meetings at V2's is always productive and enjoyable for me and my associates.  All the historic renovation is at the least mind boggling and stunning.


Last Friday, I was talking to my friend the Jeweler and was shocked to hear that is soon to close shop.  Asked why since DT is on its way up, he scoffed.  What he explain was a hoard of social institutions have located DT and the element it has brought are not the types that propel business in Youngstown mostly.


The bigger concern I now have from absorbing info. from the true business people native to Youngstown is troubling.  Apparently all the revitalization and the millions pouring into them have one thing in common................TAX CREDITS.   Here is an example of a tax credit ruse in the past, remember the scattered vinyl sided new homes built all over the "hood?"  Yes, they were created with some form of tax subsidies.....and look at them now, financially insignificant for the population.  Maybe even insolvent assets.  Here is a simplified proforma of how I understand the Tax credits (historic).

$1,000,000  project
$200,000 developer fee
$800,000 construction and development costs

$300,000 Tax credit
$700,000 Bank construction loan (70% loan to value)

Tax credit is sold to commercial entity for a discounted face value.  Developer has cash flow, bank is only exposed by 70%.

Now, after the dust settles, the minimum debt and cost service every month is $7,000 for a million in investments.  What if the project was a $5 million outlay, this requires a minimum of $35,000 per month.  The math is meant to be simple but not fuzzy.  That vinyl sided house in the hood was fuzzy wherein, after 15 years of rental I believe, the tenant could buy the house for $85,000.