Parkway Towers Revisited

[AllanY2525]

It's true that the folks on this site have always been quite decent towards me, and I for one believe
we e have a pretty good bunch of people on here.

[Youngstownshrimp]

At least you weren't verbally attacked like I was on this site.  Hopefully the low information remnants of the brain drain are beginning to learn and understand, it is the entitled renters who because of the VOTE they have, caused the City leadership to always go after the real estate investor , thus driving them away and leaving the majority of abandoned homes being basic title holders.

[AllanY2525]

Well, I hope that folks understand that I'm not a "bad guy" when they see my property on Illinois ave - which is fully occupied, is slowly but surely getting fixed up with some nice improvements already made - and legally licensed as a rental property with the city for multiple years running now.

I didn't plan on having health problems, or on having them put me in the financial situation that I am currently
in, but life doesn't always work the way we hope it will and some things are beyond our control in this world.
No one knows how much I miss living in Youngstown and want to come home, but right now is not the time.

The state of Maryland pays 100% of my medical benefits, based on my low income - something Ohio currently
cannot provide.  With Obama care coming in 2014, my situation may change - time will tell.  I want to live in my
house on Woodbine so bad, I can taste it.

[Youngstownshrimp]

Alan,
So very true.  This is why we stopped buying rental properties 13 years ago, I quickly learned the landord in affordable housing, doesn't have a chance, not to mention the possibility of going to jail over the rental business when it is clearly in the civilized world, civil law.  Thank God we for whatever reason saw value in the abandoned land in Mahoning county. 
Speaking to financial abilities, for the life of me I couldn't understand why many in this area would assume you are a bad guy if you couldn't afford to throw money at property, or if you had trouble paying property taxes because of cashflow.  Maybe it is exemplified by the inept leadership who attack investors this way.
 

[Towntalk]

If the first three floors were devoted to hotel space that would leave the rest of the building available for apartment space. None of the three venues have that many out of town shows and people coming in a year, so really there would not be a need for more space. As to the first floor, a dining room could be located there that could serve banquets as well as the folks that would be in the hotel space, and if limited to just two floors for hotel space, the third floor could be developed into conference/meeting rooms (preferably on the second floor).
There should be a doorman located on the first floor in order to keep the riff raff out and provide security which would be welcomed both by visitors and the folks living there.

[northside lurker]

Great post, Allan! (2nd to last post)  I think "financial hardship" would be a very difficult excuse to use, when the building is making the owners $60k per year, with minimal overhead. (though, by NYC standards, $60k/year is small potatoes)

I'm not a big fan of the hotel idea.  I do think there would be demand for a small portion of the building to be used for hotel space, but certainly not the whole thing.  I also think nice apartments would do well there. (not every living space on the north side needs to be designed like a dorm, with only YSU students in mind)  While the area doesn't have the same kind of amenities and "buzz" as downtown, its proximity to Wick Park, Stambaugh Auditorium, and YSU, would make it desirable enough to keep the building full, most of the time.

[AllanY2525]

Ron,


Sorry but I gotta laugh a little here with regard to "financial situation" - it's NOT "good enough" for city
hall or the prosecutor's office - but given that the best they could do with their new local "ordinance" is
to make building code violations a misdemeanor, and given that I am about 300 miles OUTSIDE their
jurisdiction, there's basically not much they can do about my apartment building at present.  They don't
have the money to tear it down, or the legal where-with-all to come to Maryland and get me over a
misdemeanor offense that would be a CIVIL matter, anywhere else.

I think I read somewhere that the maximum penalty for this "misdemeanor" is 60 days in jail and $1,000
fine.  It would probably cost anywhere from $50,000 - $200,000 to demolish the apartment building on
Bryson Street - depending largely upon the cost of remediating any remaining asbestos in the building.
My crew and I cleared out the basement and removed all the asbestos there when removing the steam
heating system, boilers, etc in hazmat gear - and the basement has been repeatedly pressure washed,
etc. from top to bottom.

Now, if the city does somehow find the money to tear the building down, they have every right to come
after me for re-imbursement of the demolition costs, etc - IN CIVIL COURT.  They could get a judgement
against me, which would result in me declaring bankruptcy - and having the judgement discharged by a
bankruptcy court.

Now, if the city will stop scaring the SHI* out of every interested party that comes to look at the building
by threatening THEM with fines, legal action, etc, etc, maybe I'll actually be able to find a new owner......

[Towntalk]

Allan's points are very good. It would cost a fortune to rehab the Parkway Tower, so that a single investor could not take it on themself and given the local demographics of the city, nay the county preclude recovering the investment by charging high rents in order to draw the better class of renters that have the resources to live there in the lap of luxuary ... no riff raff or section 8'ers, but a conglomerate made up of YSU; Stambaugh Auditorium; and DeYor are in a position to get the grants (State and Federal) to turn it into a hotel as I have said before, and the Yorks are idealy set to oversee the redevelopment, and if necesary provide the management services. The building could even be divided into both a hotel for the lower half of th building, and luxury apartments on the upper half.
This could also lead to better class folks taking a second look at the mansions along Park and Broadway, returning them to their glory days.
Shoot, if necessary, the Cafaro's might even be brought in, and with their resources and connections, the job could take this building to the next level in no time flat. Remember, both the Yorks and Cafaro's are strong supporters of YSU and DeYor, so you would have the perfect fit.

[Youngstownshrimp]

I'm surprised "financial situation" is a good enough reason.  Many times have I battled the "stupid" in this town who use one's hardship to attack them with.  For instance my company's constant struggle to pay property taxes on land with no income for decades.  Of course this is 80% of property in the City (tax delinquent).  This is also the mindset when the leaders use criminal charges towards investors, very primitive thinking.

[AllanY2525]

My mother and I were the on-site management and maintenance people at the Parkway towers apartments
during the late seventies and early eighties.  Bev and Jerry Vross owned the building when we moved in,
and a couple years they sold it to a man named John Gronvall (Eagle Holding Company) for over one million
dollars. 

Gronvall sold the building to the next owner after I moved to Virginia to start my job with AOL (I left in 1988).



As far as city Hall and vacant buildings, criminal charges, etc. I am all too familiar with that whole can of worms.
I spoke with the city prosecutor's office a couple weeks ago regarding my apartment building on Bryson Street
and after explaining my situation all he said was "continue to market the building" - which I AM DOING.


If the owners of Parkway Tower do not want to bring the building up to code ( or, like myself, cannot for financial
reasons) then they should sell the building. If the refuse to do either one, the city should make a case for invoking
eminent domain, take the building from them (give them fair market value for it - which, by this time is certainly VERY
low...) and re-sell it to an owner with the resources and commitment to renovate the place.

Parkway was built like a frigging SHERMAN TANK - and definitely worth saving.  The cost for a full rehab will be in
the millions, though.   Several years back someone told me that installing a modern elevator would cost almost
a million, all by itself.

The building would have to be a total gutt, or nearly so, because all of the plumbing is shot - including the
disabled steam heating system, and the wiring is almost certainly substandard by today's building codes.


The one huge advantage of gutting the place would be the possibility of changing the floor plan....more
"studio" apartments and less one bedroom units?  This would fit the hotel idea....  the ceilings in the
basement are almost ten feet high - more units could be added there.  In fact, there are ( or were) two
apartments in the basement when I lived there - one of which was undoubtedly the boiler attendent's back
in the day, the other was likely the apartment of the "Super" , as they say in New York.

With all of the vacant land on the east side of the building, there could be an ample sized parking lot, a nice yard,
a pool, clubhouse, etc.

Historic tax credits are probably available for some of the restoration work.  The city used to have a "facade restoration
grant", but I don't know if this is still around or has been phased out by the city.


If I won $50 Million in the lottery tomorrow, I'd buy the place and take the eighth floor for myself.  I love that old building....many,
many happy memories of it, and the great old folks that lived there.  It's even rumored that Jack Warner lived in the
building for a while.

[Towntalk]

When the Parkway Tower opened, it offered both furnished and unfurnished suites, and the furnishings in the furnished suites were of the highest quality available at the time.

[Towntalk]

Here is a photo of the Parkway Tower when it was brand spanking new on April 20, 1929.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=mno_AAAAIBAJ&sjid=3FQMAAAAIBAJ&pg=5972%2C4782848

[Towntalk]

To be perfectly and truthfully honest, I have absolutely no faith in CIC ... aside from the Incubator, what does it have to show for itself? A couple of parking lots with another on the way ... NOTHING.
If I could work my will, YSU; DeYor and the Stambaugh Auditorium would take the lead, and the only involvement that the city would have is in the applications for whatever grants would be needed, but otherwise it would have no say. You, I and others have said it well that so far as the city is concerned, it isn't worth a plug five cent piece. Worthless to the core.

[Youngstownshrimp]

Yes TT, I know the property well, I was working with the owner who sold the towers to the New York investors.  Infact it was my friend who made the deal with At&T because it is the highest structure in Youngstown.
This property will be a good example to watch because the owners are from out of town and cannot be abused like the City has abused all investors in real estate making them run.  For instance "criminal charges?"  The City owns originally the CIC who sits on a lot of abandoned historic properties.  Should they be brought to criminal court and made to renovate all those buildings?  You see, if you want investors to invest, you can't run them out of town, this is why all the demo houses.  Who wants to invest when the City won't hold the tenants responsible for tearing up the property.  I explained this many times here.
Yes the Parkway Towers will be great restored as a hotel but the City needs to level the playing field.

[Towntalk]

The one thing that my friends fear is that sooner or later it will end up being section 8 housing, and that is the very last thing that we need in this historic district.