Occupy Tent Is Up And Heated

[irishbobcat]

Say good night Sarge.....

[sfc_oliver]

Place it where the sun don't shine.

[irishbobcat]

Ollie,

The Good Lord said on the Mount "cast no pearls in front of swine."

I should do the same. I shouldn't use a subtle and sophisticated piece of reasoning on someone like you, who couldn't understand it.

Me bad.

[sfc_oliver]

And with all that, I am still waiting for you to tell me just what those city ordinances are......

How can you talk about something that you know nothing about?

I'm not that up on Youngstown local laws, but I'm sure the police knew where they could draw the line.

In a letter written to the  "occupiers" (who claim they have no leadership; and that is obvious) it was mentioned that the police order was not to infringe upon their freedom of speech, that they could stay downtown as long as they choose, but that the order was to keep downtown sidewalks free of obstruction.

Personally I don't believe I said anything about them pitching a tent other than to laugh at them over most everything they did.... Especially the first days of it when none of them knew what the guy next to them was protesting.....

[irishbobcat]

Ollie....I would also ask that you become educated and try to understand and comprehend what issues
are being discussed here.

Government has the right — indeed, the obligation — to be concerned about public safety, security and sanitation, and to safeguard the rights of us all from being trampled by the actions of others.

But government does not enter on an equal legal footing with the public when it marches into the public square to suppress
speech, protesters or press. By law, officials must show that limitations or restrictions are absolutely necessary for a greater public good.

In the case of city ordinances, such are designed for the purpose of promoting health and safety on public land.
In other occupied cities the courts reviewed affidavits of city officials seeking to evict the protesters, and concluded that they were motivated solely by the "worrisome and unsanitary conditions". I will agree that some sites were worrisome and unsanity across the country, but was that the case in downtown Youngstown?

In other cities, the formation of tent cities in public parks has resulted in semi-permanent living quarters for some of the protestors.
There was crime, illegal drugs, inadequate personal hygiene facilities and the addition of pets and animals of all types within these
city areas and were leading to a public health threat.

But was that the case in downtown Youngstown? Was the tent actually a semi-permanent living quarter? My understanding was that
the local protestors were using restrooms from friendly buisness establishments to take care of personal hygine needs. Was anyone truly
living in this tent?The tent was used to simple allow individuals to seek shelter from the elements. This one tent
could hardly be considered a public health threat.

The question Ollie is, what constitutes a reasonable time, place and manner restriction can the government place on
the right of people to assemble peacefully?

"It depends on the context and circumstances," said Geoffrey Stone, a professor specializing in constitutional law at the University of Chicago. "Things like noise, blockage of ordinary uses of the place, blockage of traffic and destruction of property allow the government to regulate speakers."
Stone gave a few examples of impeding ordinary usage: disturbing patients at a hospital, preventing students from going to school, or, more relevant for the Occupy movement, disrupting the flow of traffic for a long period of time.

Did one tent in downtown Youngstown meet these standards?

I just find it interesting that cityfathers in Youngstown and Columbus apparently
have different ordinances in regards to promoting health and safety on public lands.

[sfc_oliver]

Dennis don't act so stupid, you are supposed to be an educated person, please at least act as though you knew something about how our laws interact with the constitution....

As far as Youngstown ordinances, I believe I asked what they were, not if they are in conflict with the constitution. Perhaps if you knew what they were then you might have an argument.

[irishbobcat]

Sorry, Sarge, as a conservative, you for one always like to state that Constitution is the law
of the land.....

And the Constitution states people have the right to assembly peacefully.

Does the Constitution state that people who asemble peacefully are not allowed
to camp on public property?

The Constitution spells out specifically that people can assemble peacefully.  Please show me
where in the Constitution it states that people can not set up a warmed tent when assembling.
Please show me in the Constitution where pitching a tent is is prohibited when people assemble.
Please show me in the Constitution that states a peaceful assembly is limited by one day. Please
show me where such an assembly can't last more than one day...or show me where such an assembly can't be held continously
until the people deem the peaceful assembly should end. Show me in the Constitution that the government has the right
to disband a peaceful assembly of the people.

Again, are Youngstown Ordinances in direct violation of the First Amendment?

[sfc_oliver]

What are the Youngstown Ordinances about camping on public property?

Obviously there must be some.

[Towntalk]

Sign across the street from the tent.

[irishbobcat]

The first amendment of the Constitution allows for the right of the people to peacefully assemble.

Assemble is definded as : to bring together (as in a particular place or for a particular purpose)

Peacefully is define as without violence, and quiet. While I will agree that Occupy protests in other cities did become violent,
that was not the case in Youngstown.

The Occupy Youngstown tent met the critiera set forth in the Constitution. Therefore, are not the mayor, city council, and the police failing
to uphold the Constitution in the oath they took when assuming their position? Does not the city ordinance violate the first amendment?

The only "rule" regarding the right to assemble is that it be done peacefully. The Constitution does not state that such assemblies are limited to just one day, or between certain hours. THe only rule is that they are done peacefully.

How is pitching a tent and providing heat to such tent violating the definition of peacefully?

[jay]

The Youngstown administration succeeded in getting them off of Central Square but will the city be happy when the OY group continues to come to city council meetings?

At least it's warm at city hall. 

[sfc_oliver]

Why not ask the Mayor..........

[irishbobcat]

Interesting that one can set up a heated tent in downtown Columbus and in front of the State
Capitol builiding and it is not considered an eyesore nor does it seem to impede foot traffic.

Hard to believe that such a same tent in downtown Youngstown is frowned upon and against the
law. So which stance on such a matter is correct? Columbus or Youngstown?

It has been suggested that the tent supporters need to get employed. I would suggest to those who oppose
such protesters need to get enlightened.

[Towntalk]

    Better there than here. 

[sfc_oliver]

WOW, such a huge crowd........... If anyone has a chance to speak with them, tell them to go get a job....