What Conservatives Really Want

[Dan Moadus]

But Dan, do you care who gets poor in your great neo-con vision for America? Don't think so....

I do care that there are poor people, but in no country do they have a better chance of becoming a rich person than here.

[Youngstownshrimp]

I now believe that the Green party are nothing but communist.

[irishbobcat]

But Dan, do you care who gets poor in your great neo-con vision for America? Don't think so....

[Dan Moadus]

Dennis, I really don't know why you don't get it. We conservatives aren't interested in who gets rich, or how rich they get. Only people like you are "class" sensitive. We are interested in individual freedom, though it can have results that are not always fair. You, on the other hand fixate on fairness, as if anyone could be trusted to decide what is and what isn't fair. You are, if not sympathetic, oblivious to societies that tried what you want to do, which resulted in them killing a hundred million people. All in this impossible quest for fairness. If you had a grain of sense, you would see this.  But instead, you posture as if you really care about people. Either you do not, or you are too dumb to see where so called "progressive" agendas lead.

[irishbobcat]

seems the founding fathers were against the super rich gents from England and the East India Tea Company....

and you want to return America to the land of super rich neo-cons like England?

Always knew you were a Tory, Dan....

and Ytowner.... neo-cons want America to prosper for the rich only.....screw the poor!

[Dan Moadus]

Dennis, if you would spend a little more time studying the basis of our country's founding instead of reading left wing rags, you will be far better off.

[ytowner]

Hey Dennis. Stop the crap! Don't tell me what I want and don't want cause you don't know me. Don't be mad that I align myself with 40% of America since I am a conservative that wants this country to prosper.

And if you think I like the idea of a super poor and super rich then you need a lot of help...

[irishbobcat]

Dan, your vision for America is very dark.....talk about intellectually bankrupt folks, you guys corner the market.....

[Dan Moadus]

Sorry Dennis, as I said, that old leftist tactic is a little thread bare. I'm afraid that you and your comrades are intellectually bankrupt.

[irishbobcat]

conservatives like Ytowner want an America of the super rich and the super poor.....

conservatives like Ytowner cheer for the first class passengers on the Titanic....

conservatives like Ytowner are glad the 2nd  and 3rd class passengers are locked below steerage on the Titanic....

[ytowner]

What Conservatives Want:

Balanced Budget
No Deficit (one day lol!)
A Prosperous United States

[Youngstownshrimp]

"Poor Leroy, he cannot help himself, you see his mother is a crackhead and he doesn't know who his father is.  I know we give him housing, food, heat, clothes, medical, and education, but he needs more and you are bright and a hard worker, so you need to give Leroy more because you have more.  Oh, that gun in his pocket, don't mind that, it is for his protection and he is bored everyday so he is training himself how to shoot it."

[Rick Rowlands]

Thanks Dan.  I don't think I have the energy to pen a reply as good as your is. 

[Dan Moadus]

I think this latest "paste" by Dennis is the sickest, most idiotic arrangement of words that I have ever seen.  It could have been written by Karl Marx. It is " To each according to their needs, from each according to their ability".

I am actually starting to become fearful for my country, thinking that this "anti-freedom" mentality may be taken seriously.  Let's look at just some of the statements made. It' almost too hard to know where to begin.

"In the 2008 campaign, candidate Obama accurately described the basis of American democracy: empathy — citizens caring for each other, both social and personal responsibility — acting on that care, and an ethic of excellence."

Could anyone be ignorant enough to think that this is the basis of American democracy? Empathy!  Of course empathy is a high ideal, and in those capable of it, provides great benefits to those less fortunate. But it is one thing to "feel" for others, and an entirely different thing, to take from others, something they have honestly earned, to help those you "feel" for.

It is shameful that anyone on the left, including Dennis, should stoop to painting conservatives as cruel and uncaring, when over the years they have embraced every communist dictatorship that slaughtered million upon millions of their own people, all in the name of "fairness and empathy"

The article finishes up with this paragraph, "I see it in Wisconsin, where tens of thousands citizens see through the conservative frames and are willing to flood the streets of their capital to stand up for their rights. They understand that democracy is about citizens uniting to take care of each other, about social responsibility as well as individual responsibility, and about work - not just for your own profit, but to help create a civilized society. They appreciate their teachers, nurses, firemen, police and other public servants. They are flooding the streets to demand real democracy - the democracy of caring, of social responsibility and of excellence, where prosperity is to be shared by those who work and those who serve."

Who, with even a rudimentary understanding of the American Constitution, could say that democracy is about citizens uniting to take care of each other?  Who do you think those protesters in Wisconsin care about? Themselves, and only themselves. Most of them would gladly see ten of their fellow employees laid off if it meant a quarter an hour pay raise. Who do they think they're kidding? They care nothing for their State, and nothing for their fellow worker, because time and time again they have demonstrated that they will sit back and watch their union brothers and sisters lose their jobs before giving an inch.

They also make a mockery of the democracy that they say they so love. Their unions and they themselves participated in an election. They donated time and money to their candidates, but the majority of the people in Wisconsin "democratically" decided that they wanted conservatives to run the State.  If these protesters love democracy so much they should abide by the wishes of the majority of voter in their State instead of shirking their duties, and obstructing the functioning of their government.

I belong to some Tea Party groups and have attended many rallies and marches.  But not a single one disrupted our government. Our rallies were held on public squares, and to my knowledge never occupied a public building.

These people are nothing more than a re-emergence of the Bolsheviks. Unfortunately for them, they once again are misreading the American public, and are wading into a swamp that they may not return from.

[irishbobcat]

What Conservatives Really Want
Saturday 19 February 2011

by: George Lakoff, t r u t h o u t | Op-Ed



Dedicated to the peaceful protestors in Wisconsin, February 19, 2011.
The central issue in our political life is not being discussed. At stake is the moral basis of American democracy.

The individual issues are all too real: assaults on unions, public employees, women's rights, immigrants, the environment, health care, voting rights, food safety, pensions, prenatal care, science, public broadcasting and on and on.

Budget deficits are a ruse, as we've seen in Wisconsin, where the Governor turned a surplus into a deficit by providing corporate tax breaks, and then used the deficit as a ploy to break the unions, not just in Wisconsin, but seeking to be the first domino in a nationwide conservative movement.
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Deficits can be addressed by raising revenue, plugging tax loopholes, putting people to work and developing the economy long-term in all the ways the president has discussed. But deficits are not what really matter to conservatives.

Conservatives really want to change the basis of American life, to make America run according to the conservative moral worldview in all areas of life.
In the 2008 campaign, candidate Obama accurately described the basis of American democracy: empathy — citizens caring for each other, both social and personal responsibility — acting on that care, and an ethic of excellence. From these, our freedoms and our way of life follow, as does the role of government: to protect and empower everyone equally. Protection includes safety, health, the environment, pensions. Empowerment starts with education and infrastructure. No one can be free without these, and without a commitment to care and act on that care by one's fellow citizens.

The conservative worldview rejects all of that.

Conservatives believe in individual responsibility alone, not social responsibility. They don't think government should help its citizens. That is, they don't think citizens should help each other. The part of government they want to cut is not the military (we have 174 bases around the world), not government subsidies to corporations, not the aspect of government that fits their worldview. They want to cut the part that helps people. Why? Because that violates individual responsibility.

But where does that view of individual responsibility alone come from?

The way to understand the conservative moral system is to consider a strict father family. The father is The Decider, the ultimate moral authority in the family. His authority must not be challenged. His job is to protect the family, to support the family (by winning competitions in the marketplace), and to teach his kids right from wrong by disciplining them physically when they do wrong. The use of force is necessary and required. Only then will children develop the internal discipline to become moral beings. And only with such discipline will they be able to prosper. And what of people who are not prosperous? They don't have discipline, and without discipline they cannot be moral, so they deserve their poverty. The good people are hence the prosperous people. Helping others takes away their discipline, and hence makes them both unable to prosper on their own and function morally.

The market itself is seen in this way. The slogan, "Let the market decide" assumes the market itself is The Decider. The market is seen as both natural (since it is assumed that people naturally seek their self-interest) and moral (if everyone seeks their own profit, the profit of all will be maximized by the invisible hand). As the ultimate moral authority, there should be no power higher than the market that might go against market values. Thus the government can spend money to protect the market and promote market values, but should not rule over it either through (1) regulation, (2) taxation, (3) unions and worker rights, (4) environmental protection or food safety laws, and (5) tort cases. Moreover, government should not do public service. The market has service industries for that.

Thus, it would be wrong for the government to provide health care, education, public broadcasting, public parks and so on. The very idea of these things is at odds with the conservative moral system. No one should be paying for anyone else. It is individual responsibility in all arenas. Taxation is thus seen as taking money away from those who have earned it and giving it to people who don't deserve it. Taxation cannot be seen as providing the necessities of life for a civilized society, and, as necessary, for business to prosper.

In conservative family life, the strict father rules. Fathers and husbands should have control over reproduction; hence, parental and spousal notification laws and opposition to abortion. In conservative religion, God is seen as the strict father, the Lord, who rewards and punishes according to individual responsibility in following his Biblical word.

Above all, the authority of conservatism itself must be maintained. The country should be ruled by conservative values, and progressive values are seen as evil. Science should have authority over the market, and so the science of global warming and evolution must be denied. Facts that are inconsistent with the authority of conservatism must be ignored or denied or explained away. To protect and extend conservative values themselves, the devil's own means can be used against conservatism's immoral enemies, whether lies, intimidation, torture or even death, say, for women's doctors.
Freedom is defined as being your own strict father - with individual, not social, responsibility, and without any government authority telling you what you can and cannot do. To defend that freedom as an individual, you will, of course, need a gun.

This is the America that conservatives really want. Budget deficits are convenient ruses for destroying American democracy and replacing it with conservative rule in all areas of life.

What is saddest of all is to see Democrats helping them.

Democrats help radical conservatives by accepting the deficit frame and arguing about what to cut. Even arguing against specific "cuts" is working within the conservative frame. What is the alternative? Pointing out what conservatives really want. Point out that there is plenty of money in America, and in Wisconsin. It is at the top. The disparity in financial assets is un-American - the top one percent has more financial assets than the bottom 95 percent. Middle-class wages have been flat for 30 years, while the wealth has floated to the top. This fits the conservative way of life, but not the American way of life.
Democrats help conservatives by not shouting out loud, over and over, that it was conservative values that caused the global economic collapse: lack of regulation and a greed-is-good ethic.

Democrats also help conservatives by what a friend has called "Democratic Communication Disorder." Republican conservatives have constructed a vast and effective communication system, with think tanks, framing experts, training institutes, a system of trained speakers, vast holdings of media and booking agents. Eighty percent of the talking heads on TV are conservatives. Talk matters, because language heard over and over changes brains. Democrats have not built the communication system they need, and many are relatively clueless about how to frame their deepest values and complex truths.
And Democrats help conservatives when they function as policy wonks — talking policy without communicating the moral values behind the policies. They help conservatives when they neglect to remind us that pensions are deferred payments for work done. "Benefits" are pay for work, not a handout. Pensions and benefits are arranged by contract. If there is not enough money for them, it is because the contracted funds have been taken by conservative officials and given to wealthy people and corporations instead of to the people who have earned them.
Democrats help conservatives when they use conservative words like "entitlements" instead of "earnings" and speak of government as providing "services" instead of "necessities."

Is there hope?

I see it in Wisconsin, where tens of thousands citizens see through the conservative frames and are willing to flood the streets of their capital to stand up for their rights. They understand that democracy is about citizens uniting to take care of each other, about social responsibility as well as individual responsibility, and about work - not just for your own profit, but to help create a civilized society. They appreciate their teachers, nurses, firemen, police and other public servants. They are flooding the streets to demand real democracy - the democracy of caring, of social responsibility and of excellence, where prosperity is to be shared by those who work and those who serve.