A gift for America

[connie254]

I support myself. Matter of fact seeing how you clog up the court system with the foreclosures and demolitions, and my taxes go towards paying the courts, it seems I support you. How many employees do you have other than your lawyer?

But if you want to get back on topic, I saw your facebook page and your favorite quote.

"leave the world a better place than when you found it"

How does that work when you leave the earth in environmental mismanagement?

[irishbobcat]

Ronnie Shrimp....You don't support me....so get off it.....

Pay your property taxes.....you DEADBEAT LANDLORD!!!!!!

FRACKING is bad for the environment.......

but, go ahead and frack.....the gas may end up getting into your shrimp ponds, ronnie.....

try selling that crap to the public.....

[Youngstownshrimp]

And.................call the police then.

Stay on topic.  Whats the matter Dennis can't defend yourself, need your incognito it, to help you.

After my smack down below, short of insulting your mother, can't defend your incompetent self or are you and your buddy busy looking for jobs now.  To stay on topic again, there will be many oil and gas jobs for you shortly but you might feel you are to good for hard work.  Us hard working Americans are getting tired of supporting you and your ilk.

[connie254]

Guess it's the conservative way, to have lots of property in foreclosure or set for demolition.  But then 2003-2008 were really good for you.
Imagine my surprise when I put your name in the county court website and I had to use your full first name because there were too many entries under "Ron"

[irishbobcat]

Tell us how you really feel, Shrimp!

My, I didn't know making a comment about your deadbeat property leanings would cause you to get fired up....

considering how macho you look in public smoking your big man cigars at the Lemon Grove after court.......

[Youngstownshrimp]

I pay more taxes than you "taker", get a job and quit living off the rest of us mooch.  I never attacked you personally but I guess you punched first, if you spent more time looking for a job than fantasizing about being governor and spending all you time looking for a job than posting here all day maybe you would get it, deadbeat.

Now you pissed me off fool, in the short future when we start developing our oil and gas resources, us workers are going to drag new welfare bums like you out and make you earn your next meal the right way by hard work.  Just like I dragged the welfare recipients and made them stack heavy rocks when we built the Peterson park in Poland.  You and the rest of the lazy entitled, days of a free ride and living on the internet every day are over, the rest of us working Americans are on to you, just like we threw most of the lazy entitled out of office.  Yea, we're on to you, remember when I called you to help me put your "green energy hydraulic ram pump" in waterways?  Hell all you did is talk and say we need to get a meeting with the rest of your "Kumbaya" lazy spoiled steel mill brats.

[irishbobcat]

Pay your property taxes, Shrimp! Quit using up all the Vindicator ink with your listings!

[Youngstownshrimp]

Truly it is a gift to us all and we are blessed right here in the Valley.  As of today, state-of-the-art technology has not yet given us the alternative energy required for our comfortable lifestyle here in NE Ohio.  If I remember history correctly, before coal we had to denude 2 acres of trees just to survive thru the winter, then came coal and then came natural gas which we have.  Anyone who gets educated, rather than riding a theory right now of kumbaya and "keep giving me unemployment" will find that hydrogen, solar, hydroelectric,wind is not sufficient right now for our needs.  This is why Dennis still heats his home with NG and fuels his car with gasoline.  Us in the center are realist and are not hypocrites, we understand that we need a bridge until we can completely discover the universal theory Einstein taught us wherein everything is energy and how to change its form to power our lives.  Scientist today know that one day we will be able to master thermodynamics with changing mass to pure energy, but we are not there yet.  The plus side of this gift is 50% reduction in present carbon footprint of oil and product of our own.

Sadly, the center of populations (Pittsburg, New York City) in the NG regions are largely entitled and go against the law of thermodynamics, "nothing is free."  Energy can neither be created nor destroyed it can only change form.  The entitled think everything is free and get the energy from those who have it.

[northside lurker]

I forgot about this thread...

Rick, this isn't a black and white issue.  Environmentalists don't want everyone living in grass huts, and that would never happen.  I firmly believe this just as much as I believe that conservatives don't want us to live in a modern version of Charles Dickens' London.

[connie254]

Dennis, that's why they think 2003-2008 were boom times.

Selective memory. They weren't/ aren't hurt by it, so it's okay.

[Towntalk]

New York Governor Vetoes Fracking Bill
http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/12/11/new-york-governor-vetoes-fracking-bill/

New York's fracking ban is a mixed bag
http://www.grist.org/article/2010-12-14-new-yorks-fracking-ban-is-a-mixed-bag

[irishbobcat]

Just what are you guys SMOKING these days, Shrimp and Rick?

Fracking is bad for the environment....The city of Pittsburgh has outlawed it, so has New York State....

It's bad business....

[Youngstownshrimp]

The dawn of prosperity is upon us, seize it! and Youngstown will rise again with or without you.

[Rick Rowlands]

Rational and measured environmental regulation is good, but oftentimes it is taken to the extreme.   There is a point of diminishing returns that is reached, and beyond that point the removal of ever more minute amounts of pollutants become exponentially more expensive and does not result in a material improvement in public health.  As often happens when a company does install the technology to meet the regulations, the EPA moves the target  and makes their pollution control equipment obsolete.   This is no way to do business.

Do you want the US to be less business friendly?  Is that what you are saying?  Do you want to have an economy where many of your friends and neighbors have no means to support themselves?  That is what business unfriendly means.  No jobs, no income.  That is what energy shortages will bring. The big difference between a WPA job and private sector employment is that WPA jobs don't pay enough to do anything but barely survive.  Private sector compensation is limited only by your abilities and ambition.  You want to have a clean environment because that will keep people healthier.  But do you not agree that wealth has at least as big or larger impact on the health of an individual?  Look at the people around the world who do not have wealth.  Living in huts with no electrical power, spending their entire day just finding enough food to survive until tomorrow.  Their air may be free of pollutants, their soils not stained with chemicals, but these people have a shorter lifespan that us and many die from respiratory illnesses. Since they have to build fires to cook their food they inhale smoke on a daily basis.  No we do not want to go back to that! Their lives are short and brutal.

The choice that the environmentalists want us to make is exactly that.  They want to "play it safe" and prevent us from finding and using the sources of energy we need to keep us wealthy and healthy.  It as if they care more for the well being of the planet than the well being of humankind.  Without coal, natural gas, oil, we will soon be living in those huts.  Solar energy and wind energy just will not do the job.  Look at the numbers sometime.  Don't buy into the hype, don't listen to Dennis' rants, look at the numbers. Look at what one coal power plant produces, and compare that to the number of the big wind turbines needed to generate that power.  Then consider that the coal plant runs 24/7 and those windmills do not.  There simply is no way that wind power can replace even one coal fired plant. No way. I'm not against wind power, but I am against the almost cult like following that it has which excludes the reality of what wind turbines can realistically generate.

One final thought.  That natural gas that is a mile beneath us will keep millions of homes warm on nights just like this one, for decades into the future.  This find will keep gas prices low, and may even drop lower.  How is your home heated?  Mine is heated with gas. Gas that came from some well somewhere.  What exists in the marcellus shale is the gas that will keep our homes warm 20, 30, 40 years into the future.  That fuel doesn't come without risk, but I would say its far more risky to try to live without it.

[northside lurker]

Thanks for your response, Rick.

I agree that our country is cleaner now than it was 30 years ago.  But this is largely due to government intervention.  And lately, many have argued for the loosening or elimination of these government restrictions because they aren't business friendly.  Also, these new and environmentally friendly ways of doing things are sponsored, initially, by the government, and are often called "pork."

I don't have a strong opinion about the risks associated with fracking.  I haven't read much about it. (and doesn't the MVSD get it's water from a surface reservoir, anyway? )  However, a year ago, proponents of drilling in the Gulf of Mexico would have assured you that that was virtually without risk, too.

My bigger problem is with the "get out of our way and let us 'drill baby drill'" attitude, that was somewhat demonstrated in the article Dan posted.  I get the impression that conservatives want gov't to get out of the way so that the US becomes more "business friendly." (which, means less environmental protection)  Liberals are taking more of a "WPA" approach to fixing the economy.  This brings me back to my first post:  If the liberals' approach to fixing the economy is wrong, our children may be in debt, but still have a clean place to live.  But, if the conservatives are wrong, then our children will have a less than healthy environment to call home.

Or look at it like this: would you rather live in the economically strong--yet toxic--Youngstown of 50-60 years ago, or the economically shaky--yet cleaner--Youngstown of today?  Despite great old pictures Towntalk posts, I still think I'd prefer to live in the Youngstown of today.