The Green Party And Ending Poverty In Ohio

[irishbobcat]

Thanks for your vote, Sargent Neo-Con....

[sfc_oliver]

And this is the person who believes they should be Governor?

I think not.

[irishbobcat]

Dan, then you hold a discission with him....I refuse to waste my time on him....

[Dan Moadus]

Let's remember our manners Dennis, of course Rick's comments are a welcome addition.

[irishbobcat]

Sorry Ricky, you were not invited to this discussion,,, go back and play in your scrap junkyard....

[Rick Rowlands]

Is the value that a CEO brings to a corporation worth 411 times more than an average worker?  The average worker only cares about his company during the 8 hours he or she is on the job. The average worker is trained to perform a few tasks within a much larger whole.  If that average worker did not show up for work tomorrow, he or she could be replaced with little effort.

By contrast, a CEO is responsible for the success of the entire corporation, and has in his hands the burden of making the company prosper to the benefit of perhaps thousands of employees and thousands of stockholders. If that CEO did not come to work tomorrow, it would take time to find a replacement that has the skills to navigate the company.  So is a CEO worth 411 times what an average worker makes?  Yes!

Who would take the job of running a multi billion dollar corporation, responsible to thousands of people, who may be called to testify before Congress, who could be caught inthe middle of a huge accident... For $40,000 a year?  The stress, amount of work and the experience needed to do so successfully is worth way more than that.

[Rick Rowlands]

Whoa there Dan!!! Good grief, you are discussing concepts that Dennis cannot possibly comprehend.   

[Dan Moadus]

Dennis, let's talk "natural" rights here. If something is a natural right, it would remain intact even if a person was stranded on a desert isle, and all alone. Freedom of speech, the right to privacy, and most importantly, the right to be left alone would still apply. These are all natural God given rights and do not require any imposition upon others. Just where would your right to food, housing, medical care, education, and a living wage be if you were all alone? Notice all your so called rights require a claim on another person's labor. What about their right to be left alone. What if they don't want to work to provide these things for someone else. Your so called rights require the use of force upon others to participate. You are saying that you have the right to force someone to do work for someone else. Isn't that servitude?

[irishbobcat]

Dan, Wouldn't it be if every Ohioan has the right to food, housing, medical care, jobs that pay a living wage, education, and support in times of hardship?

Is the status quo good?

[Dan Moadus]

Dennis, you understand so little. When I worked at Lordstown the union was big on contrasting how many times our our wage the CEO made. I remember thinking "SO". I cared what I made, not what some CEO made. The other thing I thought was that the wage we got was extorted to some degree, in the sense that we bargained for it by threatening to shut down the manufacturing process. The Ceo, on the other hand only had the threat of withdrawing his services. Between the CEO, and the workers, only the CEO could say that he was worth what he was getting paid, because his job was always open to competition from the labor market. In other words, if the company found someone willing to do the CEO's job for a lot less money, they were free to do so. Not so with us workers, we would never be foolish enough to let our jobs open to the market place.

Personally, I think most CEO's are grossly overpaid, and could be replaced for a lot less money. I'm sure there are many people who could do a good job for a tenth of what most CEO's make. But, at least they could say their compensation wasn't extorted. And by the way, corporations are "people".

[irishbobcat]

Dan, we do have a flexible Constitution...look at all the damn conservative judges the Republicans have appointed since 1980....
Judges who believe corporations are people?

And what will your interpretation of freedom bring, Dan? A land of the super-rich? Sounds like the monarchy we overthrew in 1776.

A CEO in America makes 411 times more than his hourly workers.....Is he worth 411 workers? Is he smarter than 411 workers?

I think not.

You want to be free Dan? Move off shore like all of our manufacturing base and businesses have done. Then you can be free.....

You're just too cheap to pay taxes for the poor.....but you'll pay taxes to support Republican big ticket items......

[Dan Moadus]

No Dennis, I didn't learn that the Constitution is "flexible". If you think about it, you would instantly reject that concept, because if it is flexible, who is to decide what it will allow and what it won't. Would you be happy that it is "flexible" if conservatives were in the majority and were appointing judges? The only flexibility in the Constitution is that the process to ammend it is so arduous.

Again Dennis, the argument comes down to fairness vs. freedom. You simply can not recognize the world suffering that has resulted from the quest for fairness. Every repressive regime that kills its people was predicated on fairness. The old Soviet Union, China, Cuba all supposedly were dedicated to insuring that it's down trodden population would no longer have to suffer under the yoke of Capitalism. Instead they create societies so vile that they have to fence in their borders to keep their people from escaping. Even the ones that are not yet dictatorial end up causing massive suffering as they bankrupt themselves chasing "fairness". Just look at Greece, Italy, Spain, and Portugal. Socialism does not work, even if you couch it as something different (The Green Party).

[iwasthere]

I really do get tired of repeating myself iwasthere, but as a lifetime Roosevelt Democrat I have no real argument with it. My comments were directed to Dan, not Dennis.

towntalk you should have been more specific with that comment. i did not mean to ruffle your feathers but your posting sounded like you were against dennis's comment concerning people who are in need of food and shelter. mea culpa.

[irishbobcat]

Dan, the Constitution is flexible, didn't you learn that in Government class?

Dan, you may want to live in an America with a strict interpretation of the Constitution, but I for one want to live in an Ohio and America where
everyone has the right to food, housing, medical care, jobs that pay a living wage, education, and support in times of hardship!

[Dan Moadus]

Answer please, Dennis.