CVS on North Side

[Towntalk]

What if any update is there on this project?

[Mary_Krupa]

Defend Youngstown:  what are the chances of us getting a more historic looking building like in the photo you attached?

[Towntalk]

This is in the works.

[unique09]

As for the Wick Pollock property, here is my proposal. I believe that property is now owned by YSU, and YSU offers a major in Hospitality Management.

My proposal is that the Wick Pollock Inn and Restaraunt be reopened, and operated with students majoring in Hospitality Management. This would provide the students with on the job training as part of earning their degree. There could also be possibilities for those majoring in Business Management to work at the Inn as part of an internship, and also have Marketing Majors working with the marketing/advertising and promotion of the facility.

Utilizing YSU students who are interested in careers in hospitality management and/or related fields would decrease the overhead required for staffing the facility. Some of the upper management positions would be staffed as full time positions, and it might be a wise idea to have at least 1-2 experienced chef's on staff. But, most of the positions could be filled with YSU Students, and could be a combination of part-time paid positions, and non paid internships.

This would enable YSU to have a hotel/restaraunt/banquet facility adjacent to campus, the same way the building was used back in the late 80's and early 90's. It would also provide a hotel within the city limits, and could be marketed to business people and possibly to performers and teams involved in events at the Convocation Center.

A facility of this type that is well run would be a huge asset to YSU in attracting students interested in Hospitality Management, would provide the city with a full service hotel in the downtown area, and would make very good use of a historic building which has already been renovated into an Inn/Restaraunt/Banquet Facility.

[unique09]

I prefer the design in photo #1 to the design in photo #2. But, I prefer the design in photo #2 alot more than I do having no store at all built on that site.

The concerns about the location of the loading docks and garbage storage in relation to Stambaugh Auditorium are totally understandable and valid. And, in my opinion, that is something which CVS could alter with little or no increased costs incurred.

I would also imagine the building colors could be changed at very little added costs to the project. But, I'm not sure how much added cost would result to have the store built out of brick rather than masonry and concrete. Brick would be great, but if CVS is willing to change the design and landscaping to accommodate the demands of the Design Review Board, and also change the color of the exterior, I do not think it would be unreasonable if CVS did not want to budge on the building material used for the store. Unless the City of Youngstown would be willing to foot the bill for the added costs associated with the exterior being brick rather than masonry and concrete.

As for the corner proposed for the building, I'm aware it is presently vacant. I'm also aware of the 2 other projects that were proposed for the lot but which eventually did not become reality. There is nothing wrong with the city asking for alterations to the original design, but it is very important not to get carried away and lose the project alltogether. Who knows if/when another opportunity to have a viable business on that corner will be presented to the city. And, as was stated, if the CVS store is able to draw customers, it could lead to more commerical development on 5th Avenue near YSU. That would be a good thing for Youngstown, and would also enhance the quality of life for students who live on campus at YSU.

I totally understand that Wick Park and 5th Avenue are part of a "historic" area/district, and whenever possible it is best if existing structures can be refurbished, rather than being torn down and replaced with modern buildings. But, in some cases, the cost of renovating the buildings is more than the cost of a new building. Businesses are not breaking down the doors with a desire to locate in and around the Downtown/YSU area, so I think it would be a huge mistake if this deal had been nixed because of Youngstown making too many demands on the developer. That would do nothing but futher the perception that Youngstown is NOT a place which is friendly to businesses, and a reputation of that type is very difficult to get rid of.

Fortunately, it appears that an agreement is going to be reached that will be suitable to CVS and the City of Youngstown, and the project will go forward.

[DefendYoungstown]

Final comment to cap my point...

If we are going to be placing a convenience store/pharmacy on a highly visible corridor in a historic district next to a university, a cultural facility, and a 34-acre and highly utilized park that is undergoing a proposed $2.8 million renovation, I really believe we should be looking at/demanding CVS models like photo 1 (p.s. this is located in Ohio) vs. photo 2. Keep in mind, you get one shot at this and it could be a decision that lasts the next 20+ years...

[AllanY2525]

Re: The Youngstown 2020 Plan, and CVS store


This is a rather lengthy post....my apologies are issued in advance

[as I am pulling my soap box out...]

First, The CVS Store:

I grew up on the North Side, and my mother was the resident manager at
the Parkway Tower apartments building - right across from Stambaugh
Auditorium and Wick Park. 

What was done with the nice old homes and brick apartments which
WERE OCCUPIED prior to the purchase of that land by the original
developer - it's just plain shameful. 

The city never should have allowed it and should have immediately
held the developer responsible and forced a cleanup.  The homes
and apartment buildings should either have been fixed and reopened
and reoccupied or demolished immediately when the deal went sour. 

The Fifth Ave. Side of this block was not uneasy on the eyes in any
regard when it was all occupied.

It's only smart, and fair, to require the CVS store to blend peacfully
with the Stambaugh Gardens.  A city of 82,000 people does not typically
have wonderful facilities like Stambaugh.  These are the priceless assets
left to us by our grandparents generation when things were booming in
Youngstown, for all to share and the city cannot afford to get hasty and
let developers build things unless they are willing to blend in with the older,
more valuable historic neighborhoods and infrastructure.

In the end, CVS and the City have worked it out - so at this point ANY
thing would better than a freshly scraped lot with mud everywhere.  This
store will likely get great traffic and will do well.  It might even attract
another small store that does not compete in the same product lines
to the area.  Kind of like a "Cluster Effect".


In response to those who criticize the Youngstown 2010 Plan

As a former resident of Youngstown who left in 1988 and somewhat infrequently
comes back to the city I can honestly say that the 2010 plan has the right idea
and that it appears, at present, to be on course towards achieving its goals.

I had friends in my high school days who grew up and lived in the Westlake
Terrace (we all called it "Wirt Street Projects" as kids) and it totally blew my
mind to see the Hope VI/Arlington Heights project succeed.  Basically a bold,
new neighborhood has been (and still is being...) built where an old, run down
public housing project used to stand.  A new neighborhood community center
for the kids to play in a safe, and SANE environment - thereby providing an
opportunity to growth versus running the streets.  A Seniors apartment complex
that looks great.  New blocks added to Park Ave. and Parmalee, etc.

Surrounding home lots have been in-filled with new houses taking place of
older homes that were demolished.  This is what Youngstown NEEDS to be
doing - all the while thinning out neighborhoods that will eventually be
removed from the city plan and given back to nature.  Selective building
of new homes in target neighborhoods, AND - demolition of the homes in
areas where they are no longer needed.

I have seen more demolition of dead infrastructure and new buildings going
up than at any other time since I left Youngstown in 1988.  Youngstown State
University continues to add - year after year, consistently - more buildings
and infrastructure to the near North Side and the downtown area.  I would
not be at ALL surprised to see the campus continue to grow around the Wick
Park Historic District.  This is a GOOD thing because it will tie Wick Park and
Stambaugh Auditorium to the University, with each complementing the others.

There are plenty of things the city has been doing RIGHT the past several
years - but people have to realize that with half the population leaving,
there is a TON of built environment that still needs to be scraped off.
The catch-22 is trying to shrink the huge leftovers from the days when
the city was built out for 175,00 or so people to a current population of
82,00 or so costs a lot of money - and with the loss of population and jobs
the city doesn't have much to go around in terms of tax revenues.  Defend
Youngstown is exactly right - the next United States Census for the area will
give them a reality check-point of sorts.  The city's population will be
re-assessed and then changes will be made to the 2010 plan bring it in
line with the population in the city and its needs as far as housing, etc.

Entire streets, in some cases, are simply obsolete and no longer needed.
Many of these, eventually, will be removed entirely and made into either
park/green spaces or allowed to go "back to nature" as though they had
never existed.  Removal of sewer, water, gas and electric lines on these
parcels will lower the city's maintenance costs and eventually SAVE the
city money.

Mayor Williams has NOT SAID that the 2010 plan would be finished in
2010, but rather that it is an ongoing plan.  The city and its residents
need to keep working - it WILL get there in time.  The city must continue
to shrink in terms of built environment and public infrastructure until it
reaches an equilibrium between the number of people who live in Youngstown
RIGHT NOW and the number and sizes of homes, buildings, streets, parks,
walkways, etc.

The Smokey Hollow Project needs to get off of its collective A** and get
things moving - I wholeheartedly agree with just about everyone here on
THAT one.  Geez, just GET IT DONE.  And figure out what is going to be
done with the Wick Pollock Inn.  This building could EASILY be student
housing, or a faculty building - SOMETHING ...please...ANY ideas for
this place?  Anyone?

With the Economic Bailout being processed as this is being written the
Mayor, the Governor of Ohio, and our state representatives and senators
had BETTER lobby our Congress and the Fed for some Youngstown
bailout money. 

Everything from more new housing projects and public works projects to
help for the city's school system, MORE money for demolitions of obsolete
and abandoned properties, public transportation ( yeah, WRTA.....), money
for the Small Business Incubator, money for new industry like green energy
equipment manufacturers, etc.

[DefendYoungstown]

My problem is that all of this waiting and waiting and waiting for the "right" developer/development has resulted in little or no progress in revitalizing the area in which CVS wants to locate.

The only two options for development on this site since Select Medical abandoned their development plans (leaving vacant housing in place up until only 2 months ago) was a $17 million student housing complex managed by a firm from Atlanta and of which did not physically make sense for the location. Accordingly, the development was widely recjected by YSU, Stambaugh Auditorium, and Park Vista. By waiting, now a $24 million, 4 building student housing complex is being constructed off Elm St. near Cafaro House dorm by a local developer. This location makes sense as it concentrates housing in one area close to the university and adequate police and shuttle transportaion can be provided. This will also allow for future commercial development in the Madison/Elm area. Holding off on the $17 million project proved to be a good decision.

How does having vacant properties(which are not maintained by the land owner) and boarded up houses add to the beauty of the area, or even to the ability to make that neighborhood one that people will feel safe visiting, let alone living in?

All homes have been demolished on the site before CVS development was considered.

So much talk about Youngstown 2010, but it is now 2009 and not a whole lot has changed in a positive manner in the City with regard to new businesses, new/improved housing, or any other type of noticeable improvements that will lead to a revitalization of the city.

I would agree with you that there is a lot left to be desired in regards to realized improvements as a city under 2010, however, keep in mind that the plan does not mean that we will have this plan completed by the acatual year 2010. They chose 2010 because it is a census year so we can review data, look what has been working, what hasn't, and adjustments need to be made. The 2010 is ongoing. There are a lot of imporant implementation initiatives currently underway which I think will drastically improve our situation over time, however, we have a lot of work to do. Specifically, I fail to see how asking a chain pharmacy to adhere to minimal historic district standards impedes our progress. If anything, I think it's a sign of progress.

Then there is the Smokey Hollow project which is very promising, but the luster is wearing off every year that nothing happens, and "the hollow" just sits there getting older and older with no new development taking place.

Agreed. However, according to press, the new stimulus package may help with the infrastructure dollars so desperately needed to begin phase I implementation.

I'd be curious if the people on the design review board who want to kill this project have sought any input from the people who would shop at CVS if it ends up being built? Has anybody asked for input from those who would benefit by having such a store within walking distance of they live, and no longer having to travel to Liberty or the Town/Liberty border for a FULL SERVICE Pharmacy that also offers food and other items?

There is no one on the design review plan that wants the project killed. What we are asking for is minor accomodations that ensure that things like the outdoor garden at Stambaugh Aud. (where weddings take place) are not competing with loading docks and trash recepticals or that the color of the building blends fairly consistently with Stambaugh (which, at present, it does not even come close to). Again, the Design Review board is largely staffed by architects, developers, landscape professionals, economic development professionals, residents of the design review district, and the Chief City Planner of Youngstown. Their recomendations are professional and take into consideration the long term ramifications of planning for the city of Youngstown. If Youngstown is to begin to take itself serious as a city and not simply take scraps from the table, then boards like Design Review should exist.

Fortunately, from reading the story in the Vindicator it appears Mayor Williams and Bill D'Avignon (City Planning Department) are 100% in support of the store being built, and are going to do everything they can to make sure this project goes forward.

The Mayor and Bill consulted with the Design Review board to reach that agreement. They agreeded with out assessment. It was CVS from Weirton whom issued the "our way or no way" attitude. Had they consulted us from the start instead of in the 11th hour looking for a rubber stamp, most if not all of the disagreement could have been resolved. Fortunately, calmer heads prevailed, they took our recomendations, and the project will move forward.

[northside lurker]

I don't think anyone was trying to kill this project.  They were just asking CVS to be a little (very little, IMO) more responsive to their surroundings.  Do you think it's appropriate for CVS's loading docks and dumpsters to face Stamaugh Auditorium openly?

I understand that we may appear to be unfriendly to new business when we make certain requirements like this.  But, what would it say about us if we let any new business do whatever they wanted just becasue we were desperate?

[unique09]

My problem is that all of this waiting and waiting and waiting for the "right" developer/development has resulted in little or no progress in revitalizing the area in which CVS wants to locate.

There are still several vacant properties, not too mention old, boarded up houses in that area. How does having vacant properties(which are not maintained by the land owner) and boarded up houses add to the beauty of the area, or even to the ability to make that neighborhood one that people will feel safe visiting, let alone living in?

So much talk about Youngstown 2010, but it is now 2009 and not a whole lot has changed in a positive manner in the City with regard to new businesses, new/improved housing, or any other type of noticeable improvements that will lead to a revitalization of the city.

Then there is the Smokey Hollow project which is very promising, but the luster is wearing off every year that nothing happens, and "the hollow" just sits there getting older and older with no new development taking place.

I'd be curious if the people on the design review board who want to kill this project have sought any input from the people who would shop at CVS if it ends up being built? Has anybody asked for input from those who would benefit by having such a store within walking distance of they live, and no longer having to travel to Liberty or the Town/Liberty border for a FULL SERVICE Pharmacy that also offers food and other items?

Fortunately, from reading the story in the Vindicator it appears Mayor Williams and Bill D'Avignon (City Planning Department) are 100% in support of the store being built, and are going to do everything they can to make sure this project goes forward

[Towntalk]

CVS store survives beefs over its design
http://www.vindy.com/news/2009/feb/04/cvs-store-survives-beefs-over-its-design/

[DefendYoungstown]

I am on the Design Review Commission and am among the individuals who voted to table the CVS piece for the time being. There are some items that need to be clarified.

First, we expressed our support for the project and agreed to work w/in the given parameters despite the fact only a suburban design was an option (i.e. parking in the front of building). Our recomendations were simple and reasonable:

1.) change the brick color to remain more consitent with the 80 yr old cultural facility (i.e. Stambaugh Auditorium).
2.) reconfigure the site layout slighly so that the trash area/back of facility did not directly compete with the Stambaugh Auditorium outdoor gardens/shift landscaping enhancement to that area (where weddings/wedding photos are taken - the only outdoor public feature in the area).

All recomendations present a zero cost ajustment for CVS.

Our ask was that the contractor take the boards recomendations back to CVS for feeback, given our willingness to work with their less than ideal design from the start, before we made a final decision as a board. The CVS contactor stated they would not alter the site plan and may consider the brick color change. He then stated that they had another location option if we didn't move on the design presented. Again, we stated we wanted the recomendations submitted to CVS. The contrator stated that they had been working with members of the community (i.e. Stambaugh Auditorium board, Hunter Morrison from YSU) for 5 months and were shocked that we were not ready to approve the design plans as presented. Our pushback was: why in the world were you not including our board - the board that actually has to approve any design plans - in this conversation, waiting until the 11th hour to present plans and hope to have them approved in 10 minutes at City Hall? Keep in mind that the Design Review consists of:

1. Two experienced architects
2. The Buildings and Design coordinator for the City of Youngstown
3. The Chief City Planner for the City of Youngstown
4. Landscape Architect for Mill Creek Park
5. Economic Development representative - City of Youngstown
6. Me (live a block from the site, a board member at Stambaugh and working on a $2.8 million redesign of Wick Park)

The contractor was visably upset, gathered all plans, issued no comment to the press. Later, the Vindy headline read that the deal may be off.

I, for one, was very dissapointed in the professionalism displayed by the CVS contractor. The message our board received from CVS was this: "Youngstown is a desperate area. We don't care about the cultural surroundings. You'll take what we give you and you'll like it because you know you want and need this".

I certainlly welcome the location of a convienence store (and the jobs it will bring) in the greater downtown Youngstown area, however, not at the expense of soiling the integrity a historic cultural asset/area. Our recomendations were more than reasonable and still largely accomodated a completely inferior overall design plan by CVS. If they are not even remotely interested in entertaining these reasonable recomendations, then I say CVS can take their business elsewhere. I'd rather establish a proper prescedent and wait for development than accomodate a plan that is crammed down our throat because we are "desperate".

[unique09]

Having a CVS so close to campus would be very nice for YSU students who live on campus, and on the near North Side. There are now 1,500 students living on campus in the dorms and University Courtyard Apartments.

A new off-campus student housing complex with apartments is set to be built on Elm Street and open I believe in 2010.

Hopefully some type of agreement can be reached that is amicable to all parties involved, and this store can be built. People in this area complain so much about there not being any type of retail in the city of Youngstown, now there is a great opportunity to have a CVS built in a prime location, and some do not want it built for aesthetic reasons.

I understand the North Side has many structures of historical significance, and I love the North Side. But, there are also many properties which are vacant and/or terribly run down. This is an opportunity to put a viable business on a now vacant plot of land, and possibly lead to future commercial development around the YSU campus.

The more commercial development that occurs on the near North Side, the more attractive that part of the city becomes to people that might be connsidering moving to the Wick Park/YSU/Smokey Hollow area.

Also, with a CVS will come jobs. This will allow at least 20-25 people(maybe more) to have some type of employment, with some of the positions being full time(managers and Pharmacists). The employees will pay taxes which will help the financial situation of the city. County sales tax revenue will be a positive for the county, and help provide added revenue for services such as WRTA, which relies in part on revenue from a newly added sales tax increase.

[ytowner]

Move it to Downtown or right around the YSU to Downtown Gateways on Wick Avenue or perhaps even Fifth...

[Leah]

That was quick!  :-)