Green energy and Youngstown 2010

[Rick Rowlands]

Can you see the bolt cutters welded to a copper cable?  This was the last thing that a certain human did on this earth, before he fell 20 feet to his deserved death. The bolt cutters are probably still up there, in the trusses at Cold Metal Products.

[jay]

It's too bad the city gave away Lake Milton.  By using the excess water from that dam, we could have probably generated a small portion of our electricity.  How about Meander Lake?  In the summer, excess rainwater just goes over the top of the dam too. 

Does Green Energy Ohio have a chapter in the Mahoning Valley?  If not, is there enough interest to start a chapter here? 

[AllanY2525]

I don't think any of us at my office are experts on hydroelectricity.  But, we all agreed
that the Mahoning river couldn't provide the water pressure needed to run a hydroelectric plant. 
One would need to build a very large dam to create enough pressure.

My idea is to construct several dams along the course of the Mahoning river, with several
small turbine stations in them.  The power generated by each dam would add u to something
usable. 

If the dams could not be made high enough to create the pressure needed for turbine style
generators, then what about paddle wheel generators (like the water wheel in the old mill
at Mill Creek Park).  These paddle wheels basically use the weight of falling water and
the forces of gravity to generate mechanical power - which could be coupled to electric
generators.

Here's another thought:  the dam at Lake Milton - it is fairly high and probably WOULD
generate enough water pressure for one or more turbine generators.

Or how about this: Recycle organic garbage to produce methane gas/alcohol to fuel
a power generation plant.  Take what's left from this process and use it as fertilizer,
for fields that could grown corn, soy beans and other "energy crops".

I think that if Youngstown and the rest of the Mahoning Valley were to use all available
means of power generation that are unique to the area, then they could generate a
substantial amount of electrical power - when you are dealing with a public power grid,
it all adds up.

[Towntalk]

You make a good point Rick. If some stupid fool is willing to break into an Ohio Edison power station to try to steal copper, that stupid fool wouldn't think twice about stealing copper from a Solar Farm provided it was low enough for him to reach. BUT, if these farms were located on the roofs of tall buildings such as those downtown, I doubt if these self same fools would try to strip them knowing that they would have to lug the stuff down several flights of stairs and past security guards.

Fences alone won't stop some moron from trying to strip copper etc. at ground level even if the Solar Farm is armed with alarms and cameras monitored by YPD. Look at the case of some jerk that tried to cut copper wire from a live utility poll not too long ago. What kind of moron would be so stupid as to try that. Too bad he wasn't turned into a French Fry.

[northside lurker]

I work with someone who did their master's thesis on the Mahoning river, and so they are very knowledgable about it's topography.  I'll ask them what they think of having hydroelectric power stations built.

I don't think any of us at my office are experts on hydroelectricity.  But, we all agreed that the Mahoning river couldn't provide the water pressure needed to run a hydroelectric plant.  One would need to build a very large dam to create enough pressure.

[Rick Rowlands]

He he he...  Solar farms in Youngstown.  Sure.  I could just see it now. All those solar panels and no way to harness the power since all the copper wires to the panels were stolen and scrapped!

Perhaps in 1920 the idea of hydroelectric power from the river would have worked.  But not today.  It would take 10 years of environmental impact statements, public hearings, permits, etc. etc. just to get permission to build the plants, and after spending all that money there wouldn't be any left for actual construction.   

We have created a government whose primary role is to snuff out anything and everything creative and innovative.

[irishbobcat]

Here is a great Ohio site.......Green Energy Ohio.....

Notice how the rest of the state is trying new ideas.....

Why do our local politicians and business people won't get off their cans and start marketing this area as an

alternative energy business site??

http://www.greenenergyohio.org/page.cfm?pageId=3

[northside lurker]

These are all good ideas.

Allan, I work with someone who did their master's thesis on the Mahoning river, and so they are very knowledgable about it's topography.  I'll ask them what they think of having hydroelectric power stations built.

It would be a shame if all the surplus land the city will have couldn't be used somehow.

[jay]

I know this is not part of the Treez Please program, but some of our land in the city could be used to raise commercially valuable lumber.  Other land could be for orchards and crops to grow food for our residents.  Some areas could grow trees to be used as fuel. 

[AllanY2525]

Let me take Westsider's idea a little further (I posted something similar a
long time ago here on the Forum).

The Army Corps of Engineers is supposed to be [or was] cleaning up
the Mahoning River, dredging out the bottom and replacing it with
clean and un-contaminated riverbed, brought in from an outside
source in order to reclaim the river and make the water clean and
safe once again.  The project was supposed to be completed
by the year 2017 or so.

This project (if I recall correctly) was to involve removing the
three dams (that I know of) that were built along the river by the
steel industry in order to "pool" enough water resources to
adequately cool the steel mills' production lines.  Most of the
pollution left in the river is behind these dams, on the upstream
side of them, settled to the bottom of the riverbed.

If these "low-rise" dams are going to be removed anyway, why
not have the City of Youngstown, the city of Girard, etc apply
for federal grant(s) and/or aid and build a couple of NEW,
higher-rise dams to replace them, create small to medium
sized reservoirs and install HYDRO-ELECTRIC generator
stations in the new dams?

The City of Youngstown could become it's own electric power
company - selling electricity to the state power grid, *OR* using
it all , locally, to power buildings and facilities owned and operated
by Youngstown and Mahoning County.

Having their own private power grid, using technology that requires
NO FUEL OF ANY KIND would allow for a very low operating cost
for such a new power company - not to mention that it would be
TOTALLY OK for the environment, as well as beautify the land along
both sides of the Mahoning River.  Think of the money the city could
save by lighting the streets, city and county facilities with private,
LOW COST electricity.  The cost savings would be very, very
substantial.

You could take this hypothetical situation one step further - the idea
of the "Waterside Park" that the 2010 Plan has been toying around
with.  Join it with the South Ave and Market Street bridges (maybe even
beyond both of them, to the east and to the west).  This newly created
"Riverwalk" would create extra space for outdoor concerts (adjacend to
the Chevrolet Center), which would increase the number of folks who
could attend events there...allowing for more revenues to be generated.

Hell, they could have summer festivals (complete with rides), public
flea markets, etc. during the spring, summer and fall months.  All
of these things have the potential to bring "outta down $$$" INTO
TOWN - which would be a HUGE "shot in the arm" for the local
economy and government.

The extra revenues could be used to fund the Police Department,
Street Department, the public schools, and wherever else it is
desperately needed.


Anyways, just some ideas from "outside the box"

[Towntalk]

Windmill farms take up a huge amount of land since a single windmill can not generate enough electricity to supply more than one or two families. It's an idea though worth considering.

As for solar panels farms, this to is a good idea. If the city were to establish solar farms on land where three or more homes were demolished, and do it throughout the city, enough electricity could be generated to get in a multi-year agreement with Ohio Edison to reduce the cost of electricity to city residents with the solar farms remaining under the control of the city. Some cities are already doing this.

In some cities, solar panels are being installed on the roofs of all the commercial buildings.

Next door to me there is vacant land where three homes once stood. A large solar farm could be placed there that would produce a lot of electricity.

[northside lurker]

Just an idea and a few quick questions for discussion.

As part of the 2010 plan, the city wants to vacate parts of the city.  What if the city built vast solar power arrays, or erected wind turbines in these areas and the other undeveloped parts of the city?  Could Youngstown provide deeply discounted electricity to anyone (businesses/residents) who wants to relocate here?