Photo - West Wall of the Paramount

[Towntalk]

It is very difficult to be a First Run house. When Youngstown was in it's prime and had 8 downtown theaters, only 4 were First Run - Warner, State, Paramount and Palace. The others were Second and Third run houses Strand, Park, Regent, Cameo. The one advantage the Park had was that it was owned by the same company that owned the Paramount, and right up to the 1950's competed with the Palace for live stage shows such as the Zigfield Follies and Earl Carroll Vanities. It was after 1950 that the Park became a Burlesque house. When the Paramount ran into problems with it's scheduling it was able to move movies over to the Park as it did with Gone With The Wind.

A number of the neighborhood's were Second Run houses - Foster, Uptown, Belmont and Newport, others were Third Run houses - Mahoning, Bell, Home, Schenley.

The Foster was technically considered an Art house because it specialized in Foreign Films and Opera's. I recall in my youth seeing some really great films there that would not be seen in any of the downtown houses. Mr. Foster who owned several local houses went out of his way to bring in the very best of the foreign first runs to the Foster including as I said the filmed versions of Grand Opera.

Theaters bid for first run movies, and the nationally owned houses get first dibs making it nearly impossible for a little upstart house to have even a ghost of a chance at a First Run feature.

[northside lurker]

Has there been a survey as to just how many people in Mahoning County would come to downtown Youngstown to see a third or fourth run movie when they can subscribe to Netflick and view them in the convince of their home?

Why does it have to be a third or fourth run movie?

Here's the link to the Cinema Treasures site for the theater in Massillon:
http://cinematreasures.org/theater/2607/
Here is the theater's own website:
http://www.lionslincolntheatre.com/

If I had the choice of going to a theater like this downtown, or to one of the dollar cinemas in Boardman, I'd choose this in a heartbeat.

Powers Auditorium is fully equipped to show films yet they don't because the demand is just not there. Their equipment is capable of showing every format other than Cinerama, and if a sufficient number of people would commit themselves to forming a Film Buff club that would commit to providing a sufficient box office on a regular basis on a subscription basis, I'm sure that Powers would seriously look at it since it would be another revenue source.

Has Powers tried showing movies recently?  I would imagine that they could do well running some of the really hyped up new movies, and some of the timeless classics.  There could be a "Gone with the Wind" evening, for example.  Watching Gone with the Wind in that type of environment wouldn't hold a candle to seeing it on DVD.  I'm not a movie buff; maybe lots of historic theaters do this?  If this isn't common practice, I could imagine people coming here from Cleveland and Pittsburgh to see such a classic film in an authentic environment.

[Towntalk]

Has there been a survey as to just how many people in Mahoning County would come to downtown Youngstown to see a third or fourth run movie when they can subscribe to Netflick and view them in the convince of their home?

Powers Auditorium is fully equipped to show films yet they don't because the demand is just not there. Their equipment is capable of showing every format other than Cinerama, and if a sufficient number of people would commit themselves to forming a Film Buff club that would commit to providing a sufficient box office on a regular basis on a subscription basis, I'm sure that Powers would seriously look at it since it would be another revenue source.

The key would have to be ON A SUBSCRIPTION BASIS. Other cities have this and it can work, and I'd suggest that you take some time to go to the Cinema Treasures web site to see how other communities are doing it.

[northside lurker]

Who has ever said that the land that the theater sits on would be a parking lot, I sure haven't.

In point of fact that land would be an ideal location for a new City Hall.

Has the city expressed an interest in building a new police headquarters or city hall?  I have no problem with the city saying "we plan to demolish the Paramount theater to build a new police headquarters. (or city hall)"  But I'm not OK with tearing down the Paramount in the hopes that the city might consider moving some of their facilities to that location.

As to more entertainment venues, lets get one thing very clear, none of the venues that are already there are rolling in cash including the Chevy Center, Powers Auditorium, or Oakland. What makes you think that a restored Paramount would do any better. We have more than enough entertainment spots ... good ones. The problem is that these venues are not getting the support that they need.

Jay posted a photo the other day that says it all. The city goes out of its way to provide good entertainment and according to Jay, by 11:00 the only folks around were the workers.

This is a very good point.  But, there isn't a movie theater downtown.  I come from Massillon, Ohio.  The Lions club bought, restored, and now runs an old movie theater in downtown Massillon.  Because they are a nonprofit group, they show second-run movies for just a few dollars.  I think many people enjoy going to that venue for the nostalgic atmosphere.  I'm also not opposed to adaptive reuse of the Paramount, either. (though I can't think of an alternative use at this moment)

Let me ask you, how many shows at Powers, the Chevy Center or Oakland do you attend a year. The only person on this board that I know of who does, and much to his credit, is Jay.

To be perfectly honest, I haven't attended an event at any of the venues.   It's too inconvenient for me, because my only mode of transportation is the bus. (I use taxis as rarely as possible.)

Entertainment is not the magic solution to this city's woes. Before people outside the city will feel confident about coming in, we're going to have to make it a safe place, and not a crime infested out of control city where people can live in safety. We can have a thousand entertainment venues, but if people fear coming here, we have absolutely nothing.

There is no magic solution to the city's problems.  The city's comeback will have to happen in many small steps.  A vibrant entertainment district is just one of them.  From the attitude I've witnessed in the area, people would continue to fear coming here even if the crime problem was solved.

[Towntalk]

I'll agree with you on one point, and that is that Paul Warshauer is not one of the popular folks on CinemaTreasures, the premier web site on theater preservation which explains why he isn't getting the support of those in a position to come up with the cash.

Who has ever said that the land that the theater sits on would be a parking lot, I sure haven't.

In point of fact that land would be an ideal location for a new City Hall.

As to more entertainment venues, lets get one thing very clear, none of the venues that are already there are rolling in cash including the Chevy Center, Powers Auditorium, or Oakland. What makes you think that a restored Paramount would do any better. We have more than enough entertainment spots ... good ones. The problem is that these venues are not getting the support that they need.

Jay posted a photo the other day that says it all. The city goes out of its way to provide good entertainment and according to Jay, by 11:00 the only folks around were the workers.

Until we can get the folks in the valley to support what we already have, then tear down the Paramount and build a new City Hall or Police Station there. God knows that we need both, especially a new Police Headquarters. The one we have is in horrorable condition.

Let me ask you, how many shows at Powers, the Chevy Center or Oakland do you attend a year. The only person on this board that I know of who does, and much to his credit, is Jay.

Entertainment is not the magic solution to this city's woes. Before people outside the city will feel confident about coming in, we're going to have to make it a safe place, and not a crime infested out of control city where people can live in safety. We can have a thousand entertainment venues, but if people fear coming here, we have absolutely nothing.

[northside lurker]

OK so we leave that God forsaken building stand as a monument to the people in this city that are locked in the past with no hope for the future. Let's put a huge plaque on the front of the building declaring it a monument to the dreamers, and pass a city ordinance declaring it a historical monument, and as such could not be touched. And when it does finally collapse, and possably kill someone, place the blame on every single Youngstowner who refused to put all their disposable cash into restoring it.

To be perfectly honest, I think the demolition of the Paramount is inevitable.  But I'd like to see it stay until something better comes along.  While it still stands, the possibility remains--however slim--that it could be saved.  If it's plowed under to create another parking lot, (the default substitute for historic architecture in downtown) then it's gone forever.  Until there is a structural analysis of the building, we'll have to agree to disagree about the structural stability of the building.

As to the Davis building, it was worth saving because it is structurally sound. A very big difference.

Is it?  I'm not so sure.  This is just hearsay, but I've heard that Kurt Seidler of Seidler Engineering wanted to move his office from the Incubator to the Davis building, but found structural issues.  He obviously wasn't willing to spend the money to fix it.

As others have said, it's easy to talk about saving the Paramount, but when the owner walks away from it because he can't get the millons of dollars it will take just to stabilize it, and millions more to restore it, that's saying something.

Also, as others have said, the owner wanted to get as much money as he could without putting forth any of his own resources.  Because he has a questionable track record, people aren't willing to just open their wallets for him.

Do you have any concept about how much it would cost?

Multi-millions of dollars.

http://shoutyoungstown.blogspot.com/2007/03/from-one-theater-to-another-theater.html#links
At this link you can see the Shout Youngstown blog entry about the Paramount project.  Paul Warshauer estimated it would cost about $6million.  I cannot imagine the project running more than $10million.  That's about $370/sq. ft.!!!

I don't know where the money would come from.  Maybe a more reputable developer will look at Grande Venues' research and decide that a movie theater/cabaret downtown is a good idea?

[Towntalk]

OK so we leave that God forsaken building stand as a monument to the people in this city that are locked in the past with no hope for the future. Let's put a huge plaque on the front of the building declaring it a monument to the dreamers, and pass a city ordinance declaring it a historical monument, and as such could not be touched. And when it does finally collapse, and possably kill someone, place the blame on every single Youngstowner who refused to put all their disposable cash into restoring it.

As to the Davis building, it was worth saving because it is structurally sound. A very big difference.

As others have said, it's easy to talk about saving the Paramount, but when the owner walks away from it because he can't get the millons of dollars it will take just to stabilize it, and millions more to restore it, that's  saying something.

Do you have any concept about how much it would cost?

Multi-millions of dollars.

Should the city divert 50 or 100 million to save this building? And where would that money come from. Remember how much it cost to build the Chevy Center? Considering the fact that the Paramount would have to be rebuilt both inside and out not to mention refurnished, $50 to $100 million is not a wild estimate.

[northside lurker]

When this photo is added to at least 24 other photos that are available at Flickr there is absolutely no question about the fact that this building is a hazard and should be torn down asap.

What does it take to convince you of that fact? Must some innocent people have to lose their lives before you admit that you were wrong?

I toured the building (with permission) March 30 of this year.  I agree that with the extreme darkness, and uneven walking surface, it is dangerous to be inside the building right now.  (additionally, the wooden walking surface on the balcony is rotten in some areas; it would be easy for someone to break an ankle if they weren't careful)  But, last I heard, the building was secured.  People entering the building without permission are tresspassing, anyway, and shouldn't be there.  (The person who was injured while tresspassing in the State Theatre shouldn't have been there either.)

All I see in the pictures posted online is that all the original decoration is ruined.  But, there is enough of it there to use as a pattern if someone wanted to recreate it.  I think it's very unlikely that someone else will come along and save the building, and the current owners can't seem to get the ball rolling. (assuming they are even trying anymore)

I would rather see the Paramount stay where it is until one of the following happens: it is determined to be structurally unstable (by a professional engineer) and must be torn down, something better is proposed to replace it, (Look at the monolithic garbage that was built on the other side of Hazel street) or someone comes along to save the existing building.  If we're too hasty in demolishing the currently unused buildings downtown, there won't be anything left.

A few years ago, there were probably people who thought the Davis building should be demolished along with the State Theatre.  But now, that building is being saved.

[Towntalk]

For everyone:

Here is the link to the photos of the Paramount that I was referring to. Note that these are CURRENT photos -- 2006 - 2007

http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=Paramount+Youngstown

NOTE: There are 2 sets of photos in this series.

[Towntalk]

When this photo is added to at least 24 other photos that are available at Flickr there is absolutely no question about the fact that this building is a hazard and should be torn down asap.

What does it take to convince you of that fact? Must some innocent people have to lose their lives before you admit that you were wrong?

Our drive to try to save so-called historical buildings, even when those buildings are beyond saving is absolutely stupid, especially in light of the fact that 1. The present owner seems to be walking away from the project. 2. No one is willing to put up the money to do the amount of renovation that would be required.

Go to Flickr and type in "Paramount" and take a look at the photos that a YSU student took of the inside of the building during a tour not too long ago. There are 24 photos in all, then come back and try to make a case that is convincing enough to convince the folks that are financially in a position to invest the millions of dollars that would be needed.

The current owner himself said that it would take several million just to stabilize the building.

[northside lurker]

I would be very surprised if this is a structural problem.  I'm not saying it's not possible, and I'm not a structural engineer, but my job requires that I understand how buildings are put together.  In this case, it looks as though the decorative terra cotta is deteriorating (probably from the iron hook above) and is falling off the building.

[Towntalk]

This is very bad. If it gets any worse, that wall will become unstable and could lead to it's collapse. Remember by it's very nature, a theater auditorium is nothing but a shell with the weight of the roof resting on it. A theater in Toronto caved in because one of it's walls became unstable. That whole wall needs to be carefully checked by experts to see just how much of that wall is bowing. Given the distence between that point and the roof there are several tons of bricks that could come crashing down if that wall collapses, and do damage to the building across the street.

I wonder if more of these points can be found in back of the building.

Thanks for taking the photo and posting it.

[jay]

It appears that some of the terra cotta is buckling outward on the west outside wall of the theater.  The outer layers of some pieces have fallen away.    This is probably the reason for the barricades along North Hazel Street next to the building.

Question
What is the purpose of the hook and cable extending from this wall?