Could high gas prices contribute to Youngstown's comeback?

[AllanY2525]

I'll add some more food for thought to this discussion:

1) The modifications to existing gasoline-powered automobiles that enable them to run on various
mixtures of Ethanol and real, genuine gasoline are MINOR at most.  They mainly consist of special
sensors in the fuel and exhaust systems (ie: the oxygen sensor that ALL cars now have onboard)
and some minor programming changes to the onboard engine control computer (that ALL cars
now have onboard) so that the computer can correctly determine WHAT percentage of Ethanol
Versus gasoline is currently in the car's fuel system - and make minor tuning changes to
the fuel system to accomodate that particular mixture.

These necessary component/software changes to the vehicle are of MINIMUM expense to
the auto manufacturers - and the owner/driver of any such vehicle STILL has a CHOICE in
whether to use Ethanol mix, or to continue to put plain, old-fashioned gasoline in their
gas tank.  The car will run no differently, regardless of what fuel choice the owner/driver
makes.

2) EVEN cars that are NOT currently equipped to run on "E-85" (ie: 85% Ethanol/15% Gasoline)
fuel mix CAN, in fact, run on mixtures of up to 20% Ethanol/80% Gasoline - with NO MODIFICATION
WHATSOEVER to either their engines, fuel sytems, OR sensors, etc.

The crock of sh$% going around about having to "sell consumers on the idea of alternative fuel
vehicles" is JUST THAT - A CROCK OF SH#$.  The phrase "Flex-Fuel" LITERALLY MEANS
that the vehicle is flexible in terms of WHAT fuel it operates on.

In fact, President Bush recently issued and executive order that COMPELLED the oil companies
and refineries to add Ethanol to the country's fuel supply, in order to s-t-r-e-t-c-h the available fuel
supply for the nation, until oil prices and supplies become more stable again.

The federal government is NOT going to step up to the plate and encourage the production of
alternative fuels, so the private sector MUST now step up to the plate and come up with a
solution that will finally, FINALLY get Americans on the road to TRUE ENERGY INDEPENDENCE.

Anyways, that's my $0.02 - for what it's worth.  (Although at today's prices, it's probably more like
my $1,000.00 worth - with inflation and all....)

LOL

Allan

[Towntalk]

According to the National Ethanol Vehicle  Coalition there are no stations in Mahoning county that sell Flexible Fuel E-85 in spite of the fact that Daimler Chrysler; Ford; GM; Isuzu; Mazda; Mercedes-Benz; Mercury; and Nissan all make vehicles that drive on E-85 Flexable Fuel.

For a list of the vehicles that use E-85 fuel you can find it by going to the NEVC web site at;
http://www.e85fuel.com

[Towntalk]

Here are some solid facts about the Brazil experience.

1. Brazil is not an oil importing country it is an Ethanol exporting country.
2. Cars imported to Brazil MUST run on Ethanol

If Brazil could succeed in weaning itself away from oil to the point where all of its cars, trucks and such run on Ethanol, there is no reason why we couldn't here.

So why haven't we followed Brazil's example? It's as obvious from the CNN Presents report that Big Oil and the American Car industry (GM etc.) is lobbying Congress not to enact the Brazil example legislation that would force the industry to build cars that did operate on Ethanol.

Once the American people started driving cars that ran on Ethanol, and discovered that they could get better milage at a much lower cost, gasoline would be a thing of the past.

The Brazilian government mandated the change, so why cant our government?

It's so very obvious ... drive the price of gasoline up to $10.00 a gallon, while selling Ethanol for $1.50 a gallon, and the American drivers soon would stop buying gasoline.

[northside lurker]

...but until Detroit comes out with cars that can use Ethanol and cut back on cars that use gas, then all our talk will be meaningless.

I don't blame the auto makers for not making many alternate fuel cars.  What they make is determined by the market.  One of the last times Detroit tried to tell the public what the public wanted, the car was named Edsel.  And we all know how well that car did.

I admit that I take a rather hard-nosed attitude toward this issue, but I don't care if gas tops out at over $5/gallon.  I know this will put a lot of people in a financial trouble.  But, without government intervention, I think this is the only way people will stop depending on gasoline.  Even with the current high cost of gas, it still doesn't make financial sense to trade your vehicle in for an alt-fueled car. (unless your car is very old has has little value.)

Anyway, with so many people so over-extended already, (the average American is how many thousands of dollars in debt?) I think the time when many people can't afford gas is in the near future.

Lastly, the old cities--like Youngstown--were mostly complete before the car took over.  My house was built in 1915, and I seriously doubt that the original owners had a car at the time.  So I often wonder, if it worked 90 years ago, why couldn't it work again?

[Towntalk]

I agree with you to a point Jay, but until Detroit comes out with cars that can use Ethanol and cut back on cars that use gas, then all our talk will be meaningless.

CNN Presents this past week dealt with this topic in depth, and you can download a transcript at my web site. I'll place a link to it on my Home Page. I would like to see comments here on this program.

For those who don't know it is http://farrell-report.tripod.com

[jay]

We should insist that our local government start to look at the development of alternative fuels and alternative modes of transportation.   If local government does not act, then it is up to the citizens to lead the community to a renewable energy future.

[Towntalk]

That would be a dream to wish for, but as long as they can afford gas, they will opt for the suburbs. Look at the problem that the auto companies that make cars that can run on alternate fuels are having selling the public on these cars.

Brazil is a perfect example of how a country can end its dependence on oil.

Here our government is so dependent on the bags of money they get from the oil companies to follow Brazil's example.

[northside lurker]

http://realestate.msn.com/buying/Articlenewhome.aspx?cp-documentid=742526&GT1=8479

The article suggests that, as people realize that gas prices are going to stay high, they will start to move back into the inner city.