Shame on YSU

[northside lurker]

Thanks for the pictures, and your prespective, Rick.

I still disagree that the demolition of the church was a good thing; Wick Ave., and that intersection specifically, are lessened by its absence.

[Towntalk]

Thanks for the post and photos Rick. Of course you're right given the buildings condition, and as the origionator of this thread, I must agree that YSU did the best thing concerning this building.

[Rick Rowlands]

I was intimately involved with the Pilgrim Collegiate Church demolition as I was hired to do some salvage there before the building demo started, so I look at this from a somewhat different perspective.  In the university area there are a great number of churches. I stood in the Pilgrim's parking lot and could count nine churches within a couple blocks in either direction.  Of those only about half are still performing their intended purpose. 

It would be great if every architecturally significant church could be preserved, but the reality is that a church is a purpose built structure that doesn't lend itself too readily to alternate uses.  It is wonderful that the Butler has found a way to utilize First Christian, but that situation is unique.  Not many old churches are lucky enough to be next to an art museum with plenty of financial wherewithal and who also is experiencing a space crunch.   

These big old buildings are expensive to maintain, expensive to heat and their likelihood for a successful reuse is slim.  Pilgrim had absolutely no insulation whatsoever.  I was up in the attic above the vaulted ceilings and there was not a stitch of insulation.  This building required a 5,000,000 btu boiler for heat, THIRTY EIGHT TIMES the amount of energy required to heat my house!  The roof over the church proper was in decent condition, however the flat roof over the addition, the part which had the most reuse potential was completely shot.  Ever walk around on mushy suspended ceiling material on a moldy carpet? That is what was on the floors in the interior rooms.  The 1970 addition also was suffering from a weak foundation.  The addition was leaning toward Campus Book and Supply and pulling away from the original building so much that there was a 6" gap at the top of where the addition attached to the original building.

YSU made the right decision in demolishing this building.  YSU is not in the historic preservation business, they are in the education business.  YSU has preserved several significant structures on Wick Avenue including the freshly restored Pollock mansion.  Sure they could have saved more, but how many of these old money sinks do they need?  Their funding is not infinite.  The new green space will allow Jones Hall to be seen in a way that nobody ever has been able to and I think will improve the aesthetics of the Rayen to Lincoln block.  How are many of the historically significant structures faring that are not near the YSU campus?  Not much better.

There will be more churches that will have to be demolished in the coming years. Many congregations are withering away and the diocese is consolidating itself into fewer parishes.  As much as we may enjoy looking at these grand buildings and wish that they could stay forever, realize that they are not indestructible and require a boatload of resources to remain intact and those resources are few and far in between. 

These comments are made by someone who has been in the history business for two decades and who has been involved with several historic building preservation efforts.  I do not have the blind optimism that I once had.  I have learned to pick my battles carefully.

BTW, all of the stained glass, the ends of the pews, the hardwood door frames, much trim, the organ pipes an the stone exterior steps were all salvaged for reuse elsewhere.


036 by Todengine, on Flickr
The attic over the vaulted ceiling


011 by Todengine, on Flickr
Looking toward Wick Avenue.


012 by Todengine, on Flickr
The organ

[iwasthere]

i attended concerts of all sorts and the acoustics in this bldg are excellent for programs that promote the fine arts .

[Towntalk]

Thanks for the info. I'm ashamed to say that I've never been in the annex, because my very best friend works at the Butler.

[iwasthere]

The Butler Institute of American Art bought the First Christian Church but preserved the beautiful outside. I haven't been inside to see what was done to the interior, but I wouldn't expect it to look like a church inside, so I have only praise for what they did. Remember that the Victorian Players are also located in a former church, but even they preserved the exterior.

It's sad that YSU decided to destroy two beautiful buildings only to turn one into a parking lot of sorts, and will turn the other into a green space until they can make up their minds what to build there if they ever decide to build something.

the ch is the same. the butler kept its interior the same.

[Towntalk]

The Butler Institute of American Art bought the First Christian Church but preserved the beautiful outside. I haven't been inside to see what was done to the interior, but I wouldn't expect it to look like a church inside, so I have only praise for what they did. Remember that the Victorian Players are also located in a former church, but even they preserved the exterior.

It's sad that YSU decided to destroy two beautiful buildings only to turn one into a parking lot of sorts, and will turn the other into a green space until they can make up their minds what to build there if they ever decide to build something.

[iwasthere]

ysu and ytown are bent on destroying everything that is beautiful and historical.

[Towntalk]

Shame on YSU for destroying the church building across from Jones Hall. This is not the only church that they had torn down. The historic Catholic church at the corner of Wick and Rayen was also destroyed by the University so that they would have a place to place a sign.

Demolition has started on a church next to Youngstown State University.

The university purchased Pilgrim Collegiate Church in 2007. The property sits on the corner of Wick Avenue and Lincoln Avenue across from Jones Hall.

Proquality Excavating and Paving is taking down the old church. It could take up to three weeks for demolition and clean up.

The university doesn't yet have any plans for the property. After demolition, it will stay as a green space for now.

What's the next church that the University will buy and tear down? St. John's Episcopal Church?