Tucked away in the middle of 22 acres on the eastside is the remnants of what was once a hidden brothel along the Sharon line. Infact the line ran along Arcadia and borders this turn of the century house of ill repute. Recently, an investment group purchased this acreage and my organization has been clearing the overgrown access to this structure. Because the building collapsed on itself, the architecture can not be assessed. However, I was able to see the massive stone fireplace, I have never seen a fireplace like this one, anywhere. The entire roof was copper shingles and has been looted years ago. There are many side buildings that have been overtaken by nature. Gardens must have surrounded this acreage, because there are stone walkways, brick gates and flowers all over the place. This site truly is amazing.
If anyone has some history about the brothels that were along the Sharon line, please advise.
Please take pictures!! It sounds amazing!! ;D
I think I found the house on Google Earth. Looks like the driveway is on Liberty Street.
I can take pictures but I yet need to find time to learn how to post them here. If you like you may come and take pictures and post them, this will allow me to keep working like Rick. Also if anyone wants to dig up perennials or take seasoned wood from the structure you are welcome.
Rick, the acreage has three entrances and it truly is a hidden place. As I cleared the entrance to the side buildings, I uncovered a lot of stone walkways, do you know of any use for them?
What a shame it would be if you continue to destroy this site without documenting what you described with pictures. You took the time to post the description, certainly you have the time to take pictures. For the record, Rick is not the only other forum member that works!
Ron,
feel free to upload any photos you have to my website, via FTP, and I'll start a new gallery for them...
ftp address: allthingsyoungstown.net
password: youngstown
:)
Quote from: Shar on August 11, 2010, 11:30:05 AM
What a shame it would be if you continue to destroy this site without documenting what you described with pictures.
I'm thinking it is already pretty much destroyed, at the very least neglected beyond restoration.
I'd be willing to come by tomorrow around lunch time (8/12) with a camera. I am not a very good photographer though. I love the adventure of old home sites. I was especially intrigued with the old garden next to Wick Pollack. I'm happy to trade photo time for perennials - however I hesitate to dig them up in all this heat. Do they need to be out right away? Is this coming weekend an option?
Do I need a secret handshake or are there guard dogs to worry about?
I googled and have a pretty good idea of the location- where is the best place to enter?
Hey there ForumManager, give me a call at 330-272-4089 tomorrow when you plan to go over there and I'll meet you there. If there are any plants that you want I'll dig them out for you. I want to take a look around and see if there is anything there that maybe I can use at the Heritage Park.
Quote from: ForumManager on August 11, 2010, 02:54:53 PM
I'm thinking it is already pretty much destroyed, at the very least neglected beyond restoration.
Neglected and overgrown, yes but the site he described will be cleared, leveled, destroyed. eliminated (choose the word that suits you best) as he has been hired to clear it for a developer. I wasn't implying that there was anything there to be restored, it just sounds like a piece of history that needs to be photographed before it is a flat piece of dirt. I'm glad you are willing to take some photos.
I need to take several shots to get one good one but will give it my best effort.
Rick I will call you... Thanks for offering to dig plants. I can dig too. I just worry that they will fry if planted now - worth a shot though if they are going to be removed anyway. I'll bring containers.
The plants should be fine. I have been digging and planting all summer. Just need to keep them well watered until they get established! :) I'm very glad we got some rain last night.
How did you learn about the past use of this property?
Was this property ever someone's home?
What is the street address? Maybe we could check through old city directories for former uses/owners.
Quote from: Shar on August 12, 2010, 07:40:21 AM
:) I'm very glad we got some rain last night.
:)
There's one problem with that Jay. We don't know when it was a house of ill repute, or how many innocent families owned it after it stopped being such a place, and just speaking for myself, I wouldn't want total strangers linking me with that sort of business either directly or indirectly.
Being that it is a Sharon Line structure, its highly unlikely that any prominent folks owned it.
I met Ron and Forum Manager at this "house of ill repute' today, and must say that I am intrigued. The house has nearly collapsed in on itself, but the granite and sandstone fireplace still remains and in good condition. It even has a swinging bracket for hanging a pot over the fire. Some of the details of the residence indicate that it was built with a higher quality of finish than most housing stock in the area, and the numerous outbuildings and foundations seem to indicate that the property belonged to a rather wealthy landowner. It would have been the perfect place for a brothel, located in a secluded area in a sparsely populated part of town.
I really wish I could have seen it. I hope to see some pictures.
How do you know it was a brothel? From Rick's description, it appears to be the farm or property of a richer person.
If someone could give a good location for the property a search of the Sanborn Fire Insurance map might help give an idea about ther area. It could have been an early farm.
Here's the location Towntalk
http://goo.gl/maps/fcYB
Even though I knew the location, the entrance was obscure and it was a challenge to find. Rick found it, not I.
It was an interesting afternoon. I was too scared to go inside the building but others took my camera in. Thank you Rick and Ron for doing so.
I will post photos tomorrow morning. Even from where I was outside the fireplace was impressive and to me almost looked as though they could have built a building around an older pioneer fireplace. Is that a common occurrence? It was beautiful. There were also some mystery structures on the property. There were 2 long trough like concrete rectangles that had a lip to hold a lid. All kinds of uses were speculated. I believe Shrimp mentioned some history about who owned the property recently. I can't remember the details - I feel badly that I kept forgetting the name of the young man that was helping. I needed to take notes.
Didn't dig up perennials... tons of pachysandra, some ferns. gnarly big grapevines everywhere - A kid's paradise.
From the discription of the fireplace could it be that the buildings date back to the late 1800's when that area was farm land? How far away is it from the old McGuffey homestead/farm? It might be interesting to really research the location, and maby you stumbled onto the homestead of a "pioneer family".
The Mahoning Valley Historical Society might be a good place to start since they have a wealth of information. Keep in mind that the street names may have changed over the years and many roads had no fixed names early on.
The building that had the fireplace wasn't old enough to be a pioneer building. The chimney didn't seem as old as the fireplace... as least not to me. They speculate that the house might have been turn of the century? The others would know more than me on that subject. Other than the chimneys, the house is collapsed as Shrimp describes. Looks like it was a wonderful place to reside as so many other places on the east side.
What confuses me is the swinging bracket on the fireplace. There were wood burning cooking stoves as earlt as the mid 1880's, so there would have no need for a swinging bracket on the fireplace.
How large is the hearth anyway?
Anxious to see the pictures....sounds very interesting!
Forum Manager....if you are looking for perennials, let me know. I have many that need to be divided and I would be happy to share with you. :D
Quote from: Shar on August 13, 2010, 08:07:48 AM
Anxious to see the pictures....sounds very interesting!
Forum Manager....if you are looking for perennials, let me know. I have many that need to be divided and I would be happy to share with you. :D
Thank you very much, Shar,
I have plants to share too. I want to wait until it gets a little cooler to dig mine though. Right now we are busy filling in a pond since we moved and feel it is a hazard for the vandals.
Here are a few pictures.
The place was very overgrown so it really doesn't look like much is there. I was remiss in not taking photos of more of the outbuildings. most of them were basic frame structures- half gone though.
more
The troughlike sturctures -these were pretty large. Hard to tell by the photo. As with everything else very overgrown.
One of outbuildings that wasn't primarily frame seemed to be a combo of building materials. The metal on the wall was a coal grate? I think that was what Rick said.
That fireplace was impressive. How large was the room in which it was located?
Could the trough have been for watering horses or livestock? How close was it to the main building?
Quote from: jay on August 13, 2010, 09:39:19 AM
That fireplace was impressive. How large was the room in which it was located?
Could the trough have been for watering horses or livestock? How close was it to the main building?
What room? LOL It was hard to tell since everything is collapsed. Maybe Rick or Shrimp can speculate since they've been inside.
troughs was my guess too but according to Rick, they look like they might have had lids and are really quite large and it was also pointed out to me that they were far from a water source.
I agree Jay, a lot of thought went into it, and obviously it wasn't a cooking fireplace.
Great pictures!! I think that is a living room fireplace. The shelves don't seem to fit a cooking fireplace. The stone work in the fireplace actually reminds me of the fireplace in my home. I will attempt to attach a picture to see the similiarities. This pic was taken right after my hubby sandblasted 2 coats of paint off the stone. My house was built in 1906 and the fireplace is in the livingroom. The layout of the stonework is very close.
WOW that is very similar. The one at the site seemed larger and much more rustic to me ... maybe just because everything is in a shambles.
The mantel was a very large flat stone with stone corbel type supports.
The guys made comment that the stone probably wasn't sandstone - seemed harder.
Yesterday I had my weekly meeting with the investor of the Hidden Brothel and I made my report to him. He was very interested in the history of the acreage and has decided not to demolish the fireplace. We also are planning to bring in a larger machine with plans on taking down the high brick chimney and removing the debris surrounding the fireplace. One issue which was discussed was the possibility of moving the ancient fireplace. His question was made based on the fact that I have moved over 52 houses across the country with the last structure being the 1835 Augdon house moved in Poland. The fireplace can be moved albeit costly, the answer is if there are any end users for the fireplace who will step forward.
BTW, to dispel the rumourmongers, the house is already destroyed and the investor is not a developer, last time I checked, there has been no development on the Sharon line for the last 60 or more years LOL. Unless one considers all the Choice homes that were built with pork, I couldn't believe you have to rent the houses for 15 years and then you can buy them for 80K. I wonder who were the brains that came up with this waste of money.
This is probably what I would do:
Demolish the red brick chimney above the fireplace down to the beginning of the granite. Carefully dismantle the structure of the house around the fireplace, being especially careful to remove the queen post beam without it coming down on the sandstone lintel. Then demolish the rest of the house as normal and backfill the basement up around the fireplace. Now you have a fireplace sitting out by itself and it can be more easily moved. To move it I would chisel three large holes through the fireplace below the floor level, then slide beams through those holes. Place two more beams alongside the fireplace supporting the first three. Now you have a framework that will support the fireplace as it is lifted onto a trailer for transport.
Rick, we speak the same language and it is from experience and track record. What track records do our leaders have?
Quote from: Youngstownshrimp on August 16, 2010, 08:10:51 AM
Rick, we speak the same language and it is from experience and track record. What track records do our leaders have?
Huh???? What leaders?? What does this have to do with this topic??
Yesterday the investor of the hidden brothel has viewed the stone fireplace and wishes to save it. He is going to see the City about halting the demolition of the structure until he can come up with a plan on how to preserve the fireplace. My suggestion is to remove the structure around the F/P and utilize it as an outside grill and maybe erect a pavilion around it. Since he wishes to urban farm the acreage, this maybe a sort of produce selling area.
Quote from: Youngstownshrimp on August 19, 2010, 11:33:58 PM
My suggestion is to remove the structure around the F/P and utilize it as an outside grill and maybe erect a pavilion around it. Since he wishes to urban farm the acreage, this maybe a sort of produce selling area.
That sounds like a great idea. If you could make the fireplace usable, that might allow the owner to continue to use the area for events later into the fall.
I concur.
Last week we had a track excavator at the site and was able to drop the chimney. The stone fireplace is intact however, the mantle suffered a brick hit and the center is out. It possibly can be mortared back into place without being obvious, all in all better than the whole stone F/P being broken into a million of pieces. We are hauling out all of the wood and will eventually have the basement left, we are planning to see if we can use it for an aquaculture tank.
Forum Manager, please feel free to drop by and take pictures.
Any updates on the fireplace or property?
Fireplace standing , building demo'd and grounds graded nicely.
Thanks, keep us updated please.
Is this old Sharon line trolly land soon to be Youngstown's Eastside industrial greenfields?
I always thought it would be interesting to explore the old trolley route just to
see if there are any pieces of history left along the old track bed.
When was the Sharon line abandoned?
I am working with a local author who is writing a book that will include a section on the Youngstown and Sharon Street Railway. Last weekend we traced the right of way from where it crosses McGuffey road all the way to Sharon. There are actually quite a few extant remains visible and even some rails left in place in Hubbard. Interurban lines are usually easy to trace as power companies used those right of ways for transmission lines, many of which still exist.
Rick, we manage over 100 acres from the south side of McGuffey going north to Jacobs road. If your pal needs access, let me know?
Rick,
Did the trolley line run up the middle of Stewart ? I always suspected that it did because of the
Grass island on the upper end of the street in the middle.
I always wanted to get a metal detector and walk the trolly line. Then I would have to retire with the riches I would find. ;D ;D ;D
The metal detector is a great idea.....no telling what types of historical artifacts you
might find by sweeping the old right of way.
I put up the land you guys come up with the detector, New business.
I'd love to have some antique brass or silver buttons from a conductor's uniform...
;)
Well you won't find those along the right of way. There is only one place that stuff is found: ebay!
The Fireplace picture Shar posted here seems to be a fireplace on a Fifth ave home.