An effort has started to form a Downtown Business Council.
If I can help please let me know.
I've heard that all the councilmen were going to attend the next meeting.
i hope they all do because the biggest problem is the new lounge called "love lounge". some of the patrons had gunfire with one another couple of weeks ago. it is always mayhem after this bar closes. patrons spill out into the streets and block traffic up so they can show their contempt for civic orders. annie gilliam must address this problem before a tradegy happens at the "love lounge". the love lounge was the former "skeeters" a jazz and blues bars that only admitted patrons over 35 yrs.
if you would like to speak at this meeting the flier says to contact Joe Iesue a jiesue@yahoo.com 814-873-8245 or Lisa from William Leonards Extraordinary Gentlemen at 330-480-0444
i hope other business owners speak at this event esp the bars that have to put up with the love lounge lizards after closing hours.
The problem with "mayhem" in the streets outside the club after it closes needs to
be addressed by the Youngstown Police Department, not the bar. The bar is responsible
for making sure people behave while they are inside it, during business hours.
You cannot blame the bar because some of the people that go there make problems
outside after the bar has closed... put the blame where it belongs and deal with the
persons who are causing the problems
If people where shooting at each other after the bar let out, and they were outside,
where were the police? Were these people arrested? Did anyone even call the police?
I have to respectfully disagree with Allan. The owner has a responsability not only for the conduct inside his saloon but the immediate area around it.
If this saloon is causing problems that could easily lead to crimes a complaint should be filed with the liquor control board, and they would investigate, you can rest assured of that.
Who knows what's being sold there besides booze? Drugs? Prostitution? Gambling?
And this joint is next door to the Children's Museum. That in itself is a factor to be considered.
That's a slippery slope to have business owners responsible for the behaviour of customers in the area near the business.
How big a radius (outside) should the owners have to partol? Are they permitted to use force? To carry weapons? Are they properly trained? Do they need to be?
What if the building is leased? Can we also hold the property owner responsible? How about renters and homeowners? Should I be responsible if several of my son's friends show up at my house with someone I don't know (so and so's cousin's sister's friend's half-brother) and that person decides to steal my neighbors car when they leave?
Now, if there is drugs, prostitution, and/or gambling in the place the owners/employees should be responsible enough.....TO CALL THE POLICE! They should also be a willing witness in court if needed. Responsibility beyond that, I don't see it.
How many police do you see a Covelli Center events? Does it have a history of problems that require them to be there? Why not some police presence at places and times that have shown potential to be a problem? Maybe an officer or two "walking the beat" downtown and popping in to any/all open establishments periodically thoughout the evening. And a cruiser or two in view at closing time (and some arrests if called for) would help. It wouldn't be long before th eproblem goes away.
As for the Children's Museum being next door, I've asked before, How many people bring their kids to the museum around the same time the bars close? Is the museum even open?
Already many folks don't want anything to do with downtown Youngstown.
What's your alternative, let this saloon continue business as usual until there are murders?
Hire security ... preferably off duty Police Officers who have arrest powers ... carry guns and know who the trouble makers are.
As to the museum ... just knowing that this saloon is next door gives parents second thoughts about putting their children at risk.
The trouble isn't just confined to closing time. If Lucky Penny (By the way what's his real name) doesn't care what happens at night why should we believe that its any different at other times?
And what about the folks that want to patronize other businesses downtown including families, why should they be victimized by the folks that patronize the saloon in question?
Finally, what about the businesses in the area of this saloon. Shouldn't they have a safe environment for their customers.
Is this particular saloon so important to the downtown economy that it must be kept, even if its presence proves detrimental.
As to the owner and his employees being "responsable".
If they were responsable, they would not have allowed it to get to the point it is today.
You don't find the sort of problems that this saloon has because they are responsable. I have absolutely no doubt that at the first sign of problems they would call the police. They have made an investment in their business that they would want protected.
I don't doubt that the owners of the Love Lounge aren't doing what they should be.
I'm just saying that owners, even responsible ones, can only control so much. Police presence would do wonders. They don't have to camp out there but if they were known to swing by every so often the riff-raff would take note and find a better (worse) place to hang out.
Are there problems during the day? If so then the Museum would be affected but iwasthere only mentions problems at night.
I agree that some type of security guards - be they police or a private agency - would go a long
ways towards addressing the problem. Someone from the city (or perhaps the liquor control board?)
should approach the owner(s) and explain the problem to them - with "crystal clarity", but in the end
they have every legal right to do business, provided they maintain lawful conduct within their walls.
The liquor control board could be used as leverage to get the owner to hire security, perhaps
suggesting to the owner(s) that their liquor license could be in jeopardy if the club is creating a
nuisance - but in the end, all legal adults are ultimately responsible for their own good conduct.
Because the bar is downtown, it does not own the property outside the bar itself, the city does.
They are not legally obligated to guarantee the best behaviour of everyone who patronizes their
establishment once they have left the premises.
If they are selling drugs inside the bar, the city or county needs to send some undercover officers
into the club and make some arrests - that should bring it to a screeching halt. If it can be proven
that drugs or other illegal stuff is being sold in the bar, then it very well should have it's liquor
license suspended, or even revoked altogether - you'll get no argument from me on that one.
I also seriously doubt that the children's museum is open at 2 a.m., and any person who would
bring a child there at 2 a.m. needs to have their head examined.
Towntalk - I never mind it when you disagree with me (or anyone else) - because you always do
it in an agreeable manner :::grin::: and I totally respect your opinion, just as you do mine.
You are a good debater and I always find that mentally stimulating - you are one smart lady!
:)
Blush :)
Actually Why?town did trouble ever operate at a given time of day?
Again as to the museum, there's no argument about its hours ... but there is about perception and like it or not that is what we have to deal with in downtown Youngstown., and while you and I may not like it, we're helpless to change the minds and hearts of others, especially parents.
Families go to shows at Powers or the Covelli Center and witness the carryings on at the saloon in question, and that sticks in their minds right along with the wonderful show they saw. They don't need to read about in in the paper or on the nightly news ... they saw it first hand. And they don't like what they saw.
Back in the good old days, when Youngstown was wide open there were a number of saloons catering to trouble makers and the respectful folks refused to allow their wives and children to come downtown unescorted, and after dark, forget it.
I would be the first to try to change people's minds about downtown, whether day or night, but I know that it would do little good.
Most of my working life was spent downtown (about 30 years) and no one likes that area more than me, but I am also wise enough to know that it doesn't take much to scare people away from the area. One incident is sufficient.
We all want to see downtown become a showpiece ... a destination day or night, and we all want to see more businesses to invest in downtown Youngstown, but so long as there is even one place that reenfources the negative, this will not happen. Business men and women will not risk their money in an area that could quickly become another Hillman Street.
I wish the Downtown Business Council a lot of luck. These groups tend to come and go over time.
Here is a list we compiled is 2003.
This is a list of groups that are working on certain aspects of downtown Youngstown. If anyone knows the name of a missing group, please post the information.
A.C.T.I.O.N.
Chamber of Commerce
City Council/Planning
Community Improvement Corporation
Convention and Visitors Bureau
Downtown Partners
Downtown Revitalization Committee
Federal Plaza Committee
First Night Youngstown
Mahoning Commons
2010 Downtown Working Group
Wick Neighbors
Youngstown Arts Council
Youngstown Arts & Entertainment District Association
YSU Urban Studies
These were some of the topics discussed at the Downtown Business Council meeting tonight.
Parking/Transportation - problematic ticketing
Need for recycling options - especially for businesses
Security - after 2:00 a.m., beggars
Downtown Events - need for internet calendar and hard copy
Lighting - better lighting is on the way
Downtown Free Internet - how did Erie, PA do it
Councilmembers present
Councilman Brown
Councilwoman Gillam
Councilman Kitchen
Councilwoman Tarpley
overall i thought it was a pretty good meeting. Thanks for coming J
I suggested that the businesses call the Mahoning County Green Team, at my last job and in City Hall they drop off bins and also come and empty them for free.
i too saw it was productive among the concerns. the council reps that were there were shocked to hear about some of the concerns. these individuals must have been sleeping when a ytown resident spoke at council recently about some of the concerns that they were not aware of these problems. ::) ???
Have to admit, some of the concerns, especially those from the Purple Cat I had never heard before either, and I speak to that organization on a weekly basis, sometimes daily. Some of the other concerns, the need for a Downtown Shuttle, Monday through Friday, during the day and night, I have to admit, I really don't support.
the purple cat issue was the first for me too. i have to admit i have witnessed people parking their cars between the cones that are set up in front of the their candy store. :o
lynds does the hotdog vendor in front of federal place have a current food vendor license. i was downtown on Good Friday and i over heard a conversation by regular downtown customers that this hotdog vendor did not have a current food vendor license. lynds, iwasthere never want to spread unwarranted information about anyone. :o can you check this out for iwasthere and other concern citizens. :D
Thank you for asking Iwasthere, :) a few weeks ago when she set up in front of Tomisino's Pizza she did not have permission to set up in that location and she also did not have proof of a vendors permit.
Now things are clear as to where she can set up and she does have recent up to date permits to vend Downtown.
iwasthere thanx you. :D do you have the any info for the icecream store that is supposed to open up in the parking deck across the street from the city hall?
oh yeah its open! I just got the menu, I'm not sure how, but i will try to scan and post it.
McAllister's Homemade IceCream OPEN Mon-Fri 7am-5pm
i can fax the menu to anyone who would like it
iwasthere thanxz you! :D