MVOC will be assisting in a survey of local stores in the Wick Park area and the north side. Do these stores sell nutritious foods or mainly alcohol and junk food? What is going on at these stores? Have some of them become magnets for those who engage in criminal activity?
Just how far will the survey cover? (North - South - East - West) of Wick Park?
There aren't that many corner grocery stores in that area.
I just hope it doesn't turn out to be some type of frenzied vigilante type approach to divert the entitled block to scapegoat on free enterprize. See, the ACORN type block can sway the entitled to shut down small business and label the selling of alcohol as the instrument and responsibility of crime.
And they can ratchet up the outdated ignorant mindset that real estate investors are all evil and are responsible for all the blight in YTown.
The proprietors of the corner stores cannot be blamed for the conduct of
those who frequent their establishments. As long as they [proprietors] and
those in their employ are not doing anything illegal themselves, or actively
encouraging criminal behaviour(s) on the part of others then they really
have no liability issues.
If a store patron is engaged in illegal conduct while on the premises, then
the proprietors should call the police.
Proprietors of the corner stores have the right to pick and choose what
they sell [within the law, of course] in their stores, whether it includes
"nutritious foods", alcohol, cigarettes, "junk food", etc - it's a free
market.
A survey will help to identify locations where there is a consistent pattern of
crime, loitering, disturbances, etc - but ultimately it is up to the police
department to address these issues, not the proprietor(s).
If the people in the neighborhoods where these stores are located have
issues with the store itself, they can always call the police themselves
and talk to their ward representative. They also have the power to
speak with their wallets - by boycotting these stores.
If I move into this neighborhood, it will be because the new CVS has made basic necessities available. It's very unlikely that I would shop at the Red and White on Elm, unless they clean up their act. So, I guess I'd be speaking with my wallet. But, IMO, they could improve their store without spending lots of money for a complete remodel; become an asset to the neighborhood instead of being an obstacle to the neighborhood's revitalization.
It is first important to get information about what is going on in these stores, what they sell, whether or not it is fresh or expired, whether or not they are up to building and health codes, etc.
Store owners are absolutely responsible for the activities that they permit to occur on their property. They are also responsible for keeping the standards of their products up to health codes and the condition of their markets up to building codes. If they fail to do so, then they deserve to be punished and sanctioned. However, if store owners who are not up to code desire to reform their practices, I think they should be given the opportunity to do so, under strict watch of both the city and local neighborhood associations.
People in the Wick Park Neighborhood and other areas of the city deserve clean, friendly environments to buy quality goods and services, even if those services are alcohol and junk food. Proprietors of stores that are dilapidated, selling expired products, and/or allowing criminal activity to take place on the property should be held accountable for these wrongs. However, in the interests of improving these markets rather than shutting them down, I think the city/neighborhood groups should provide both pressure on these markets to improve their conditions and incentives to help them improve.
Well said, unfortunately what I know happened in the IDORA area was that there were no convictions against the store, and yet the ACORN look alike MVOC, rallied the locals to vote their liquor license down. This approach like the anti real estate investor mindset will only result in non-investment in these same areas.
it wasn't mvoc that did the rallying cry it was the idora park neighbors that wanted their area to go dry due to store owners unethical practices of selling adult items to minors. mvoc was asked to assist in process of voting that area dry.
I might also add that part of the process actually included knocking on the doors of every resident of the neighborhood and asking them what THEY felt were the issues in the neighborhood...to which they identified the corner stores as being a priority issue. After this analysis, the corner stores were approached and asked to work with the neighborhood group to clean up their properties. Some did and continue to work with the neighborhood group and have even made finical contributions to group for cleanups, block parties, projects, etc. Some didn't to include Party Pantry. Research was then conducted regarding health code violations, police calls for service (over 100) total sales (which included over 90% alcohol). It was clearly obvious that the corner store was not assest to the neighborhood nor were they going to work with residents to improve their conditions. Accordingly, citizens organized and passed a dry precinct ballot vote by nearly 80%...that's 8-0 percent which closes their doors (because they were primarily selling only alcohol). The area is now being considered to potential expansion of adjacent York Machine which is one of the finest businesses in Youngstown. Additionally, over 1.5 million has been raised to assist with homeownership downpayment grants, vacant lot improvement project, urban agriculture project, and expansion of Mill Creek Park into neighborhood. Those efforts were just recognized this morning by the Dominion Foundation with it's Northeast Ohio Community Impact awards.
And that is what organizers (at least this one) do: help residents organize their neighborhoods, prioritize issues, deal with those issues, plan projects & events, bring other leadership together to work on and/or solve common problems.
They also conduct extensive research into individuals who own tens of thousands (and counting per continued research) of dollars in unpaid taxes but continue to ask for city services to assist with or promote endeavors or events that serve to support their own private interests.
Let's face it, the days of ACORN type community organizing have passed. Across the nation they have been exposed for what they really are, the amassing of a socialist voting block. A voting block that is usurping the principals of free enterprise. Americans are tired of the entitled, we don't want another landbank, we want the seeds to grow something on our land, to produce something that we can sell and in return better ourselves and the community. If all the vacant land in Youngstown produced something, there would be taxes flowing. This is why the founding fathers set property taxes as a liability of the property not the individual. Community must lift up the value of it's property for it to provide a return. Ninety percent of vacant land in the YTown are non-taxpaying, because we failed to make it pay for itself. For that matter, the largest non taxpaying landholding entity in this City is the City. And not to besmirch anyone, even Mt. Calvary owns tax delinquent property , this does not mean thay are bad people.
No entity can afford to pay taxes on unproductive land.
If the MVOC is convinced that they can make land productive again with a new landbank, I will offer them 20 vacant lots right now for their urban agriculture project. And if they need more, I am sure most of the other struggling land owners in the City will add more. It's easy to talk about it when you have a salary whether you grow things or not.
Youngstownshrimp, real, genuine community organizing has been a great benefit to my neighborhood on the North Side. It helped bring neighborhood residents together to tackle issues that we were each struggling with independently and has most certainly not established a "socialist voting block," it's established a strong and legitimate interest group. It has brought private people, businesses, institutions, and landlords together to pursue active solutions to problems in the neighborhood that are a hindrance to sustainable private development and investment, such as crime, unsecured vacant properties, etc.
We -absolutely- need a functional land bank system in Youngstown and Mahoning County. Land banks take unused land from the hands of people who have neglected it for years and open up that land for -new- private investment, whether it be for residential, commercial, institutional, or industrial use. Freeing this land up from people who are delinquent on taxes and not maintaining their properties and putting it in the hands of new and responsible private developers will bring great rewards in both tax revenues and property values over the long term. The fact that you oppose community organizing and claim to own a significant amount of vacant land admittedly makes me question your motives in this situation.
Quote from: Youngstownshrimp on March 04, 2010, 09:24:19 AM
Let's face it, the days of ACORN type community organizing have passed. Across the nation they have been exposed for what they really are, the amassing of a socialist voting block. A voting block that is usurping the principals of free enterprise. Americans are tired of the entitled, we don't want another landbank, we want the seeds to grow something on our land, to produce something that we can sell and in return better ourselves and the community. If all the vacant land in Youngstown produced something, there would be taxes flowing. This is why the founding fathers set property taxes as a liability of the property not the individual. Community must lift up the value of it's property for it to provide a return. Ninety percent of vacant land in the YTown are non-taxpaying, because we failed to make it pay for itself. For that matter, the largest non taxpaying landholding entity in this City is the City. And not to besmirch anyone, even Mt. Calvary owns tax delinquent property , this does not mean thay are bad people.
No entity can afford to pay taxes on unproductive land.
If the MVOC is convinced that they can make land productive again with a new landbank, I will offer them 20 vacant lots right now for their urban agriculture project. And if they need more, I am sure most of the other struggling land owners in the City will add more. It's easy to talk about it when you have a salary whether you grow things or not.
Shrimp...I just checked the Mahoning County website and it looks like you have 64 parcels in your name that are non-tax paying. How can you possibly be critical of others when you are a part of the problem? Why don't you pay your taxes?? I centainly pay mine!!
Quote from: atek101 on March 04, 2010, 12:12:13 PM
Freeing this land up from people who are delinquent on taxes and not maintaining their properties and putting it in the hands of new and responsible private developers will bring great rewards in both tax revenues and property values over the long term. The fact that you oppose community organizing and claim to own a significant amount of vacant land admittedly makes me question your motives in this situation.
Atek, you are the first who is beginning to get it. Most of the unproductive property in YTown can be freed up for production, but there are NO TAKERS. Right now you can go to the City of YTown and request land from them and they will bend over backwards to accomodate you. Again, the land is available, I just completed the tax forefeiture of 34 acres on the eastside for a group of doctors who will use the land for agriculture and hopefully gas, who will pay taxes on the land because they they feel they can make the land productive. Again, the MVOC and CDA's outcry that we need another landbank to get all this land to be productive is not true. The land is already available "en masse", we need the end user. You mentioned private developers will make the land taxpaying, my question to you is where are they? Our efforts need to be to bring them in, the land is available.
Shar, if you did your homework, you will see that majority of the parcels were non-taxpaying BEFORE I WAS BORN. Here's and offer, I and other parcel owners will GIVE you the unproductive parcels and you pay the taxes and make them productive. When do you want them, they are worthless and a liability?
Quote from: Youngstownshrimp on March 04, 2010, 03:30:01 PM
Shar, if you did your homework, you will see that majority of the parcels were non-taxpaying BEFORE I WAS BORN. Here's and offer, I and other parcel owners will GIVE you the unproductive parcels and you pay the taxes and make them productive. When do you want them, they are worthless and a liability?
The Mahoning County website does not show records back that far and I really don't care how long they have been delinquent. You own the property and those properties are your responsibility. Why do you own all of these properties? Did they once have homes? Were they rental properties and you can no longer make any money on them? Were they a bad investment? What ever the excuse is, they are your responsibility. The taxes on the home where you live are delinquent. Oh, that's right, that one is not in your name, its Bill's responsibility even though you want to take the credit for the rehab and preservation of it. Give me a break.....there is always someone else to blame for your problems.
Youngstownshrimp, it still makes more sense to have a land bank that is a one-stop-shop for consolidating and distributing this land with clear titles than to have it entangled in years worth of paperwork left to the whims of the global market. Sure, you can get the land, and believe me, there are takers. However, much of the vacant land is so tied up in red tape, judgment liens, and tax delinquencies that it often deters legitimate investment from touching the properties. At least with the land bank, it's the city or county working as a unit to clear the titles of these properties to make it easier for legitimate investors to acquire the land. A land bank can also ensure that the property is distributed to people with an actual business plan to re-utilize it.
I live next to a house that was vacant and an absentee landlord bought it up with the interest of rehabbing it several years ago. He went through the process of clearing the title, but hasn't been up once in years to inspect, maintain, or secure the property. Eventually, the city ended up bulldozing it because it had become a horrible eyesore and a dumping ground. He still owns the land and has done nothing with it. That's not a knock on all absentee landlords, as we have some in my neighborhood that are doing a decent job. My point is that if he had purchased that property through a functioning land bank, he would have had to develop a legitimate business plan to improve the property in order to acquire it. He also could have been held accountable for -not- improving the property by losing any incentives gained when he acquired it. If the land bank had owned that property, I might have some neighbors by now instead of what will soon become an overgrown lot full of bugs, rats, trash and tires in the spring.
There needs to be some measure of organized control and redistribution of vacant property within the city and county in order to ensure that the property doesn't just end up vacant a second time around.
Fire at a building at Elm and Thornton that when last occupied was a Pharmacy.
Right next to it is a neighborhood grocery store, and just a wall seperates them.
No doubt that the store will have to trash all their groceries due to smoke damage.
It's a shame since the grocer is a good man who not only has good products, but his store is crime free, and cares about his customers.
Update via WKBN-TV
Fire Damages Vacant Commercial Building
http://www.wkbn.com/content/news/local/story/Fire-Damages-Vacant-Commercial-Building/w9k4p7EWr0uI-fly37ayFQ.cspx
Atek, very well written and you are correct. It is good to see there can be honest intelligent debate in this forum. My biggest gripe with the MVOC is that they refuse to debate their dreams with the professionals who know, ala' the Landlord Ass., Gary Crim perhaps?
That being said, it is refreshing to hear you say exactly what needs to be done. What I am saying, is the vehicle to do all this is in place and has been available with numerous programs. The tax cert. sales by our county, done, and has put many non-taxpaying property back on the paying rosters. Let me give you and example, the new Phantom fireworks location was assembled by my team and provided. This parcel is made up of 100's of 40' lots that were used as a dump. V&M Star is expanding into Girard on land that sat idle for many decades. The facts are that if there was usage for land in YTown, it would have been gone already. Money flows like water, it seeks it's own level.
Now, I read the discrp. of this new hybrid landbank, there is no guarantee and all it really does is create a large bureaucracy manned by Acorn look alikes. Fortunately for America, we have no money and we have to rethink what is productive and what isn't.
Towntalk,
It's really sad to read about the fire in that adjacent building. The report states that
there was only about $1,000 in damage to the building - and yet the firefighters
fell through the floor during the blaze??
That adjacent building must really be in bad shape. It would be great if the city would
[carefully] take it down, without damaging the store that shares the party-wall with it.
It would certainly make the appearance of the exterior better for the neighborhood
store owner.
You are right on point about this gentleman's store - he's a good guy, and an asset
to the neighborhood - not a detriment.
:/
His family was responsible for having two dilapidated houses torn down, and expanded his parking area, a great improvement.
Hopefully the burnt building will also come down sooner than later.
By the way we're fortunate here with neighbors who have taken it on themselves to care for vacant lots, keeping the grass mowed, and in one planting a garden.
I would love to see more neighborhood gardens planted on the vacant lots in
the city - especially those that are adjacent to "corner stores".
:)
Quote from: Shar on March 04, 2010, 04:25:40 PM
The Mahoning County website does not show records back that far and I really don't care how long they have been delinquent. You own the property and those properties are your responsibility. Why do you own all of these properties? Did they once have homes? Were they rental properties and you can no longer make any money on them? Were they a bad investment? What ever the excuse is, they are your responsibility. The taxes on the home where you live are delinquent. Oh, that's right, that one is not in your name, its Bill's responsibility even though you want to take the credit for the rehab and preservation of it. Give me a break.....there is always someone else to blame for your problems.
Ummm Shrimpy did you miss this question or you just don't have a good "Honest" answer to reply?
Weasel, if you and your boyfriend take of your dress, sorry your mask, I will give you and answer.
I don't even understand the context that insult and I think it's uncalled for. It's hard to take you seriously if you can't be civil on this board.
I'm just looking at the Facts they speak for themselves.. Right???
Shrimp you dont have the stones to tell the truth.. Do ya..
lets be civil on this board. i would like to hear both sides of this story.
Truth is , we pay more than our share in taxes and if the incognito want to engage in truth, bring it on and reveal their identity or do they have something to hide, I don't. Let's crucify Mt. Calvary for tax delinquency or how much taxes have the city landbank generated thruout the decades?
ytownshrimp i agree with you with mt. calvary church's debt to the ytown. do you think ytown will recieve any monies now that jason whitehead might become their next DON? i asked paul drennan and carol reghetti if this church paid the city for the usage of the convocation ctre for thier scumbag leader wagner's funeral. the answer was not yet or we do not know.
Quote from: Youngstownshrimp on March 10, 2010, 01:01:01 PM
Truth is , we pay more than our share in taxes and if the incognito want to engage in truth, bring it on and reveal their identity or do they have something to hide, I don't. Let's crucify Mt. Calvary for tax delinquency or how much taxes have the city landbank generated thruout the decades?
How typical that you want to point the finger in every direction but yourself. This is a forum, everyone has screen names. You are the one that has chosen to let everyone know who you are. I have checked the Mahoning County website and I don't see one property with your name on it that has the taxes paid. Who are you paying this fair share to??
Iwasthere, it is not that Mt. Calvary are bad people or that the city landbank is unproductive, I am just trying to educate the inept that property taxes are legally what they call "in rem" and not "in persona" , meaning that the recourse is against the property and not the owner. Argument of the founding fathers is that, who will invest in property if the liabilty is against them personally? This is why AGAIN 90% of vacant property in YTown is delinquent because us MORONS have not lifted up the value like they did in the steel mill days. People actually wanted property and valued it then. Now, who wants vacant lots in YTOWN? But, since gas drilling is coming, maybe land can produce again and generate taxes. This is why I am growing shrimp, to generate revenue and ultimately place property back on the tax paying rosters, what is the City landbank doing?
Shar or Cher wanna-be, admit it, you are nothing but a coward not even proud of your real name. If you want to look into my finances, show me yours? Yeah, I thought so, keep hiding behind your meaningless life. Oh, enlighten us with what you have done for your community? Right, nada..nada %^&$*%$ thing! Quit trying to be Batman.
I have apparently hit a nerve with you!! Can't stop laughing!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Just answer the question Ron, quit skirting the issue here.. The issue is that we the Tax payers have been paying to demo and maintain your properties.. . Be a man and grow a pair will ya..
Where did ya go Ron???? what's wrong is the question too tuff for ya??
ytownshrimp when it comes to the leaders of the mt calvary church i would not trust them as far as i can throw them. this church had the former idora park for over ten years, this church was suppose to blt a complex called, "the city of god". what ytown has received from this church leaders is, "the city new dump". this church must be held acct for their contributions of bringing the lower southside further down to the cesspool bottom.
Youngstownshrimp, there are a lot of accusations on this board regarding your property's tax delinquency. I don't know if these are founded, as I haven't looked at the public records myself, but since there is such concern on this board, perhaps you should explain your situation more clearly rather than attack your accusers. Squabbling won't solve any problems. We have to hold ourselves accountable if we are going to hold others accountable.
iwasthere, MVOC and the YNDC grand design is to do urban renewal in that part of YTown. Their plans call for urban renewal and agriculture in the Idora Park neighborhood. Ever since the county auctioned off the tax certs. , the winning bidder (American Tax Funding) had a fiduciary responsibility to purchase all the taxes owed in the county for five years. Legally, there are no delinquent property in Mahoning county, ATF has paid off all the taxes for five years. What this means is that the tax issue on all delinquent parcels is between two private parties. So as far as the county is concerned, Mt. Cal. taxes are current and one must contact ATF to see if taxes are outstanding with them. Then there is the question of weather ATF sold the liendns to other investors like Optimum or Cintina.
Quote from: atek101 on March 15, 2010, 11:08:57 AM
Youngstownshrimp, there are a lot of accusations on this board regarding your property's tax delinquency. I don't know if these are founded, as I haven't looked at the public records myself, but since there is such concern on this board, perhaps you should explain your situation more clearly rather than attack your accusers. Squabbling won't solve any problems. We have to hold ourselves accountable if we are going to hold others accountable.
Shrip has no interest in telling the truth on this board. He will not respond. What does that tell you??
ytownshrimp who owns the former Idora Park? ???
iwasthere, last time I checked it was Mt. Calvary who owns Idora Park.
once again that church receives something for free without doing anything on thier financial end. remember mt calvary lost idora park due to back taxes and mckelvy adminstration gave it back to them for one dollar. >:(
iwasthere, I did not know this.
Again, with the contract between ATF and the county, NO PROPERTY IS DELINQUENT IN THE COUNTY, ATF is obligated to purchase the certs. So despite what you read online, this is the case. Negotiated tax sale means the county sold the taxes and accepted the purchase price. It is now a private matter between the property owner and ATF (a private corp.). If we denounce Mt. Calvary and Bishop Wagner, we have to denounce 90% of vacant property in YTOWN. Majority of the taxes on vacant property in YTown have been non-performing since the 50's.
The higher road here should be what should we do to make the land productive? Because free markets will rush in if property produces and pay the taxes. This is why houses in YTown are the lowest in the country, who wants them? Supply and demand, the City can't safeguard it's housing, who will invest in them?
why should mt calvary and other property owners profit on the sale of their land when they did not uphold their bargain? wagner's estate is behind in their property taxes in canfield. should we forgive everyone and look the other way when people do not hold up to their financial responsibilities when their is no hardship in their life. i heard that wagner lived a life of royalty while his followers lived in squalor.
Quote from: atek101 on March 15, 2010, 11:08:57 AM
Youngstownshrimp, there are a lot of accusations on this board regarding your property's tax delinquency. I don't know if these are founded, as I haven't looked at the public records myself, but since there is such concern on this board, perhaps you should explain your situation more clearly rather than attack your accusers. Squabbling won't solve any problems. We have to hold ourselves accountable if we are going to hold others accountable.
Speak the truth here Shrimp.. inquiring minds want to know.... Why is you will insult me by changing the subject.. Do you have stems growing out of your head?? I have asked and asked and aksed you to tell me the real deal behind your curtian but you still wont take off you mask.. Just tell the truth here.. or go away YOUR PART OF THE PROBLEM WITH YOUNGSTOWN...
So if I understand correctly, Youngstownshrimp, if you had property with negotiated tax liens, I could buy those liens from American Tax Funding for pennies and force you to pay the full value to me? And since they are liens, if you refused to pay, could I then foreclose on and seize the property or get served the full value of the liens through sheriff's sale?
If so, that sounds like a good deal. We should employ this tactic as a community to seize property from neglectful landlords and redistribute it to responsible private investment.
Atek, very good, you have intellect, I can't say much about the mechanic Weasel, who couldn't even run a shop in YTown without failing and blaming the City for his failure. If he was man enough to say his real name, I wonder how many customers would disclose his business, or lack thereof. And what's with his last post, my cat can form sentences better, maybe too much grease in his brain.
If you really are trying to understand YTown real estate and tax certs., After five years, the vast majority of the tax certs. remain unchanged, no investor wants the property. So kindly tell us how you plan to forfeit property and make it available for investments.
iwasthere, it seems most of us are getting the picture here, it is not that non-paying tax property is such a shock, majority of vacant parcels and houses in Ytown are not producing tax revenue. The surprise here is that most title holders do not and cannot realize value to the real estate in Ytown. The phenomenon is that real estate can have a negative value and be a liability. This is what WE have done to our property, made it so that no one wants to own it.
Quote from: Youngstownshrimp on March 18, 2010, 09:24:06 PM
Atek, very good, you have intellect, I can't say much about the mechanic Weasel, who couldn't even run a shop in YTown without failing and blaming the City for his failure. If he was man enough to say his real name, I wonder how many customers would disclose his business, or lack thereof. And what's with his last post, my cat can form sentences better, maybe too much grease in his brain.
Shrimp I don't blame the city for one of my Automotive repair shops to close, I would say it's more urban flight that has taken a foothold on our city.. We have been in business for over 35 years and are still up and running today.. The Automotive industry has taken a beating for a long time now.. And it's going to take years to recover.. As to your question as to who I am... Bob... So Bob still wants to know WTF is going on with you?? screwing the taxpayers of Youngstown???
ytownshrimp it was brought up at a recent townhall meeting that anyone that owes the city monies a red mark against their credit rating can intice them to pay more attention to their properties that they own in ytown. i think that would wake up the mt. calvary church leaders.
Quote from: iwasthere on March 19, 2010, 01:49:00 PM
ytownshrimp it was brought up at a recent townhall meeting that anyone that owes the city monies a red mark against their credit rating can intice them to pay more attention to their properties that they own in ytown. i think that would wake up the mt. calvary church leaders.
Ohhhhh...might wake up the Shrimp too....he owes the city lots of money!!
Shar, always whining, you whine about selling your house in boardman for less than what you paid, you whine about me, you whine about vagrants. Geez, go whine to your husband. Oh, and when you sell your house on the Northside, you're gonna loose your ass again! Stop whining and do something. And quit hanging out with the greasy Weasel, you both keep whining, call the Police already!
WHY ARE YOU SCREWING THE TAX PAYERS OF YOUNGSTOWN RON???
Quote from: Youngstownshrimp on March 19, 2010, 09:19:54 PM
Shar, always whining, you whine about selling your house in boardman for less than what you paid, you whine about me, you whine about vagrants. Geez, go whine to your husband. Oh, and when you sell your house on the Northside, you're gonna loose your ass again! Stop whining and do something. And quit hanging out with the greasy Weasel, you both keep whining, call the Police already!
ROFLMAO!!!! I wouldn't call asking a simple question "whining". Why is it that you cannot answer the question that has been asked.....ashamed of what you do?? No answers, just temper tantrums. I can picture you stomping your little shrimpy feet as you type your posts!
Oh by the way....very touching that you took the time to go read all of my previous posts. :)