We decided to explore the fitness trail by the Mahoning. We entered it off of West Avenue and headed for the B&O. The fitness stations are all overgrown and the path is very uneven and rocky but aside from that the trail becomes completely impassable toward the bandstand behind the B&O. We turned back. For nearly the entire stretch the overgrowth was much taller than us and if it wasn't for our dog we wouldn't have recognized it as a trail. Most of the guard rail fencing is in a shambles I realize this may have been a plan that didn't account for possible flooding of the area.
I am trying to remember when the trail was established. Does anyone remember? The entry marker sign had no date and was covered with graffiti
I did a search and found a document from the League of Women Voters website. It states the trail is planned to connect into Millcreek Park on one end and all the way past the Chevy Center and eventually into the Stavich Bike Trail on the Struthers end
I'm not complaining because I realize it is not a priority, just curious about when it was established and if the plan was abandoned.
The document is a very good source of information about the history of Youngstown and its neighborhoods.
http://www.cboss.com/lwv/citizens_guide_to_Youngstown.htm
It's a shame that the Youngstown Parks Department doesn't maintain the trail along the Mahoning River. I suggest making a call to the first ward councilmember.
I didn't even know it was there, where exactly is the entrance?
Take Mahoning toward town
Left on West Ave.
Cross Tod Ave.
Go under tracks
Make a right and drive down toward river - go under arches.
The sign is there when you make the right turn.
There is a dock - rotting.
The trail is mowed a bit at first then is overgrown.
It seems the trail has been damaged due to recent high waters... the guard railings are in pieces and there are ruts and what looks like river rock all along the trail. It is hard to see all the ruts with the weeds, so if you go, proceed with caution.
The riverside trail brings me to the other issue I have long wondered about. Youngstown has a combined sewer overflow system... when the storm drains overflow the runoff mixes with raw sewage drains and when the drainage capacity is overwhelmed the mixture flows into areas in MillCreek, other local creeks and into the Mahoning. Hence the smell of sewer in certain areas of the park. There is a warning sign on the river bank under the expressway near Fellows Gardens. I realize there is no quick fix for this situation but is anything being done? As long as we are dumping raw sewage into these areas is it safe for our recreation?
In 2002 there was a settlement stating that over the next 4 years what was referred to as "illegal sewage" in Youngstown would be reduced dramatically and over the long term things would be improved.
http://www.epa.gov/compliance/resources/cases/civil/cwa/youngstown.html
Are there current documents available online that outline what Youngstown has been doing to comply with the settlement? My nose hasn't noticed any improvement over the years.
The Mahoning Watershed website mentions combined overflow and nothing is said about a reduction plan being implemented in Youngstown.
http://www.ysu.edu/mahoning_river/Research%20Reports/river_ongoing_pollution.htm
I've looked through the county and city sites and have found no plan of attack.
According to this document in 1998 Youngstown had 80 CSO outfalls
http://www.epa.gov/npdes/pubs/cso_cities.pdf
The Ohio EPA page says there are 101
http://www.epa.state.oh.us/dsw/cso/csoindex.html
Youngstown was issued a permit in 2003 but it expired in 2007 and it contains 52 pages of specifics.
http://www.epa.state.oh.us/dsw/permits/doc/3PE00006.pdf
It is very difficult these days to get a single family septic system approved and installed but it seems large cities are grandfathered in. And it is no wonder due to the massive scale of reconstruction that will be necessary to separate storm drains from raw sewage.
More Information about combined sewer overflow
http://cfpub1.epa.gov/npdes/home.cfm?program_id=5
There are plans outlined and much information is available for communities. It appears that there are grants available to assist with the cleanup and since Youngstown provides the system for a fairly large metropolitan area the adjoining townships might also be able to apply for grants. Youngstown is not alone in its KA-KA separation plight.
It seems to me that it would be much easier (and lest costly) to COMBINE the runoff from both storm drains and sewers,
then run it through a sewage treatment plant, thereby rendering ALL of the combined runoff harmless to the environment.
Methane gas could be extracted from the treatment plant, and used for fuel, also....
:)
I guess it does all go to the sewage treatment plant but the sewers can't handle the load during heavy rainfall or winter meltdown... the excess has to go somewhere, hence the overflows.
When we have a heavy rain we have rivers flowing down both sides of the street because the sewers can't handle that much water which leads me to wonder just what toxins could be in that water as the sewers overflow. (Uggggggh the very thought is gross.) :P >:(
I guess what I was trying to suggest is that these sewer overflow points be directed to a wastewater
treatment facility as well....wherever the sewage is overflowing into Mill Creek park, etc it should be
redirected from that point to the treatment facility..
agreed
A sewage plant is designed to operate at certain maximum capacity. Adding a lot of rainwater to the inflow will exceed the capacity of the sewage plant. Rainwater and sewage should not have been mixed together in the first place. An upgrade of the waste water system (for both sewage and storm water) is in order.
The older parts of the city probably discharged all waste waters into the Mahoning River long ago. For health reasons, sewage was eventually directed to a sewage plant. The newer sections of the city have the sewage water going to the sewage plant and the storm water piped to a nearby stream.
P.S. Storm water also carries some pollutants such as litter, fluids that have dripped from cars, and dirt.
A $22,000 study will soon be conducted by the City and YSU to redevelop the fitness/bike trail along the Mahoning (from at least the Chevy to Mill Creek Park. More to follow. Stay tuned...
Why spend $22,000 to STUDY redeveloping the fitness trail? Why not spend 22K to FIX the trail? How about save that 22K and ELIMINATE the trail. Nobody uses it, and when it is redeveloped nobody will use it then. That location is secluded and easy pickings for the criminal element to accost people who would use the trail. It was a dumb idea to begin with and never should have been built.
I have to agree with Rick on this one.
Why is it that every time we turn around someone has to be calling for spending MONEY WE JOLLY WELL DON'T HAVE ON STUPID STUDIES THAT NO ONE WILL EVER READ on projects tat FEW WILL EVER USE.
In the basement of City hall are hundreds if not thousands of "studies" that the city commissioned costing us hundreds of thousands of tax payer dollars THAT WERE NEVER IMPLIMENTED.
Why not dig out the original Riverfront Fitness Trail plan, then get together VOLUNTEERS to go down and clean it up like we do StreetScape, and use that $22,000 on some worthwhile project downtown that will draw folks down like the Italian Heritage event.
I'm POSITIVE that Phil could well use that money in a really productive way, and the choir said Amen.
By the way, I'm NOT against a fitness trail, I'm all for it, I'm just OPPOSED to wasting tax dollars on studies that no one ever reads, and for the most part are never implimented.
As I stated earlier, isn't the Youngstown Parks Department supposed to maintain the trail? As the trail grows in, people will quit using it.
What if the grounds crew quit mowing the grass on a ballfield. Within a week or so the grass would be too high for a baseball game to be played.
If the City can't, or won't maintain the trail, then it's time for them to turn it over to Mill Creek Park.
Youngstown is quick to start projects that it isn't prepared to maintain and this makes absolutely no sense. If they didn't have control of the land in question that would be one thing, but they do, so if they expect private property owners to maintain their property, then they should be required to go and do thou likewise.
There needs to be a complete reform in the way the Parks Department works, and a whole new board needs to replace the ones that are there now.
Members
Denise M. Skowron, Chairperson. Her term will expire on December 31, 2011
Denise A. Warren, Vice-Chairperson. Her term will expire on December 31, 2008.
David M. Davis, Member. His term will expire on December 31, 2010.
George F. Williams, Member. His term will expire December 31, 2009.
Address:
1st Floor, City Hall
26 South Phelps Street
Youngstown , OH 44503
Office Phone: 330.742.8711
FAX: 330.742.8715
Hours: Monday thru Friday 8:00 am to 4:00 pm
PERSONAL
Michael Berry Maintenance Supervisor 330.742.8711
Tiffany Chavers Administrative Assistant 330.742.8711
Henry J. Stambaugh Golf Course 330.743.5370
Jerald Gordon Maintenance Crew Supervisor 330.742.8711
Carla Isabella Secretary to Director 330.742.8713
Jerry Stanley Park Police 330.742.8711
David Sturtz City Forester 330.742.8711
Darlene Tubbs Executive Secretary 330.742.8712
Jason Whitehead Interim Director 330.742.8214
I would ask that you please have your facts straight before you submit aggressive posts, particularly toward someone whom simply attempts to keep citizens informed of any and all developments that they may otherwise not be aware of. Regarding the trail, I am simply passing along information from the Economic Development department and officials from YSU (whom are the departments conducting the study) as a courtesy to members of this board. Because an idea or a study is conducted downtown does not mean it comes from my office. Addionally, studies are required so that grant money can be allocated for projects. Perhaps the old study is outdated or there is a required revision after so many years. I do not know. Your point of contact is Sarah Lown in Economic Development 744-1708. I'm sure I will learn of more details of this project if/when it progress and I plan to continue to share that information.
Phil:
My comments were not aimed at you in any way. You are doing a great job. My own beef is with studies in general.
I know that the state and feds require studies to accompany grant applications, and the city is powerless to change that.
My question is why a group like StreetScape can't go down and clean up the Riverfront Fitness Trail on a volunteer basis and save the $22,000 for other projects.
How many people have used that trail? We already have such trails in Mill Creek Park.
While the riverside area needs to be cleaned up why can't it just be left alone since it is a habitat for animals, and subject to flooding.
Personally, I would rather see you get that money for your projects.
We keep hearing about the need for green space, and what better place for it is on the banks of the river. A natural park like setting much like that envisioned by Volney Rogers. A buffer zone if you please.
When and if the River is ever cleaned up to the point that it can be used safely, then plans can be made for such things as fishing and picnics.
Roger that, TownTalk, and I didn't mean to come off sounding harsh myself. It was Mr. Rowlands comments, I thought, that were justfied in thought but unproductive in delivery, setting off . Maybe it's just all the emails from the Forbes article wearing me a bit thin this week. Regardless, here is an email I recieved from Sarah Lown this afternoon:
"Phil
FYI, I am attaching the bike trail proposal sent to me by Benkhe and Assocs from Cleveland.
We agreed to move forward on all the links on the attached map except the "E" to "F" link, which connects the River with the YMCA. We don't have the budget for that right now.
I contacted Sharon Letson and Hunter Morrison by e-mail to see if they will share in the cost of developing a broader loop connecting the River with the YMCA and campus. The estimated cost for that will be $23,000- to $25,000.
If you know of other bike-loving, deep-pocketed souls, send them my way! I think we can do this. Once we find local funds for the planning/grant proposal phase, I think it won't be hard to get grants to build the trail.
Thanks,
Sarah
p.s. also fyi am attaching the proposed local links to the Lake to River bike trail."
I have copies of these proposals and will send them to anyone who would like them on Monday morning -just send me an email (pkidd@cityofyoungstownoh.com). Have a great weekend!
PK
A bike trail like that invisioned would be a good idea.
I'm reminded of the bike trails across Canada, and how popular they are.
We have many wonderous sites here in Ohio that could be reached by an innerconected bike trail with overnight hostels.
In Europe they also have bike trails with hostels, so why not Ohio?
The path I trekked on would need deep concrete construction for a hike/bike trail similar to boardwalks along large water bodies. The area was covered in water a few years back and the flooding was as high as the level of the B&O Parking lot, completely submerging the trail with swiftly moving waters. I feel that is the reason it is so unkempt at this time. The railings are in shambles and the path is rutted and gullied by water run off. It would need to be less of a nature trail and more of a paved byway in order to withstand flooding.
Just got back from the Riverside Fitness Trail. I walked it from the parking near Tod Ave. all the way to the B&O. Most of the time it was overgrown at a height taller than me. Ran into two spiderwebs head on with my face. Hit many thorns. Ended up with blood all over my pants from my arms rubbing against them. It was evident that at least one more person had gone the entire length somewhat recently.
What are the blue poles that are every so often along the trail?
It was bad enough going the one way that I walked back on Mahoning from the B&O all the way down to West Ave. It looks to me like the thing that trail needs most is someone with a weedwacker.
There were several people enjoying the river at the parking area, fishing and hanging out.
Will post a couple pictures later.
The blue poles are the fitness stations and they normally have instructions posted for use. It is probably there but can't be seen. We never made as far as the area of the dock at the B&O ... we couldn't get through the dense growth. We turned around at the stage in the back. Maybe people are checking it out and that is why it looks recently traveled.
If someone volunteered to cut some of this brush, where should the cuttings be placed?
OK in an attempt to be more productive in my comments, here are a few thoughts.
I read from Phil's post that the city has to pay for the study, then some outside source will provide grants to actually build the trail. I see that its now being called a bike trail and not a fitness trail. OK I can see that. The fitness trail was a bad idea. A bike trail connecting Mill Creek Park and the B&O Station is good though.
We all know that the Mahoning River floods and the area where part of this trail would be built will at some point again be flooded. This will almost certainly washout parts of the trail. Grant money will pay for the initial construction of the trail but if it washes out where will the rebuild money come from? If those funds are not assured we could be facing this very senario again in a few years.
If this trail is to be the responsibility of the City Parks Dept. will it indeed be maintained this time? Would it not be a better idea to make it the responsibility of Mill Creek Park instead? That brings up the question, would they want it?
Quote from: Rick Rowlands on August 12, 2008, 12:19:49 PM
That brings up the question, would they want it?
I would be surprised if they didn't want it if was offered to them. They have been making a real effort to acquire land in the city recently. There is probably a legitimate reason, but I think they want to push themselves up the largest urban parks list.
Turning it over to Mill Creek Park would be a great idea. They are far better at maintaining things than is the city, and by having more Park land inside the city would ease the hard feelings that other communities have about us so far as the Park is concerned.
Phil sent me the proposal and here is a map that was in it:
(http://inlinethumb14.webshots.com/24333/2478741660033749120S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2478741660033749120EHtXgO)
A is the YSU wellness center.
B is Spring Common Bridge
C is under Mahoning Avenue bridge
D is the Fellows Riverside Garden
E is the YMCA
F is the Chevy Center
G is the Republic Steel Brown Bonnell Bessemer converters site
Went to the fitness trail again, this time I saw the dock at the parking lot and the dock at the B&O, hadn't seen either before. I didn't get an upclose look at the parking area dock, but I went out on the dock at the B&O, and it didn't seem that bad, only a few boards needed replaced. Would the price for the wood be included in the work on the trail? Who is responsible for the docks right now? It looked like there was supposed to be a light pole on the dock at the B&O.
Does anyone know where I can rent a canoe? And does the B&O allow you to park there if you are canoeing?
The city should send a couple people down the trail with weedwackers, then maybe all the people hanging around the parking lot will venture down the trail. The cuttings could be dumped in the cities compost heap (I assume we have one?)
At least the part of the trail that I was on wouldn't take all that much work to make useable, it and the docks look like they would make a great Eagle Scout project.
I'm going to meet with Sarah on Tues. and will print out these questions. Also, from a total resource standpoint, I think linking Point A to Point E might make more sense (at least right now) then building out toward Point G. However, I haven't spoken to Sarah about this particular plan in any detail yet. There may be good reason for it. I'm assuming that it probably has something to do with preparing the line to extend/connect further down river.
Phil:
This is just a suggestion for what it may or may not be worth, but the trail along the river follows the path of the old Penn-Ohio Canal, and there were three basens in that area where the canal boats were turned around and where they were placed when another boat was coming from the opposite direction.
The Historical Society would have a detailed map, but as I understand, there was a basin at the foot of Basin Street, another at Market Street and another just above Spring Commons.
We wouldn't be amiss if historic markers were placed at these points.
As for Baldwin Dam, or what's left of it, a historic marker could be placed there also. Baldwin Dam was under the Spring Common Bridge.
Another Historic Marker in this same area could pay tribute to the Mahoning Pleasure Boat Company which ran small steamboats up and down the river.
There are a lot of historical points along the trail.
Let's do it and let's do it when we rename/rededicate the park area by the B&O Station "John Young Memorial Park" at the return of CityFest June 27, 2009 (Ytown's B'day).
PK
Two other historic points are along that trail:
(1) The very first Youngstown Fair Grounds was located in an area underneath the present Market Street Bridge. The fair grounds was later moved to an area near Arlington Street.
(2) There was an early amusement park located west of Spring Commons. The River Boats would haul passangers to the park. Exactly where that park was I can not say, but the park was mentioned in an article published by the Vindicator January 17, 1932 - "AMUSEMENT PARK ON NORTH BANK OF MAHONING DREW "YOUNG BLOODS"", placing it "on the north bank of the Mahoning River opposite the mouth of Mill Creek."
If you are going to put markers down in that area they better be made of plastic, otherwise they'll be GONE....
There is quite a neighborhood of homeless between Market Street and Spring Common along the river. This would have to be addressed if the bike trail goes in. All that needs cleaned up and those people evicted. If this is not done the trail will be perceived as being unsafe.
A couple of years ago I was down there in my pickup with a friend showing him the backside of the William Tod Co. Plant. A man walked up to us from his hideaway on the riverbank, spotted the set of cutting torches in the bed and must have thought that I was down there to steal scrap. He gave us an ultimatum. Either come to his camp and smoke some weed or get the f**k out of there. We beat a hasty retreat.
Maybe the very act of opening that area up with a bike trail will help convince those people to move on.
Why not an historical marker for the Tod plant? You know the gates for the Panama Canal were made in those buildings as were the engines that drove the original Ferris Wheel! Betcha didn't know that!
You bet Rick. As I said in an earlier post, the area along the river is loaded with historic sites.
As to the markers, how about concrete. Heavy concrete that the bums and scrap thieves can't sell or destroy.
Too bad you didn't have a couple of tough guys with very short tempers along with you in your adventure that could have put the fear of the Almighty very deeply in the seat of that guys sit down area if you know what I mean. These guys brains are fried on drugs, and not worth polite consideration.
A whack upside the head would not have been amiss.