The other day, when I was ranting and raving about everything I do as well as the other organizations do is an uphill battle, I brushed it unto the rug and didn't give up hope. I was really inspired after seeing a rainbow cast over the city of Youngstown and felt that was a sign that I neeeded to continue to help.
Yesterday, in my endeavors of yardwork on that mansion (259 Park), something very very strange was going on. The house next door is for rent/sale, well there was a young gentlemen seated on the sidewalk....watching us unload our lawnmower like a hawk. A minute later we heard ruffling and an older gentlemen walk down the driveway and they both got into their truck and drove away.
I turned around to see the board over the doorway to be moved (when earlier it wasnt.) and the front door to be open, I got a little closer to hear someone running around in the house and someone talking on a phone.
I got spooked and walked away, in the meantime calling the YDP and YSUPD, while waiting on the PD's to get here....this truck continues to circle the house, then they park at Wick Park and cross the street... the older gentlemen disapears as my partner rounds the corner to see the fence open to the house we were caring for, as well as the basement door being kicked in.
The police arrive and walk around the house, confirming someone was indeed inside (they had locked all the doors to keep the cops out), the police said that they werent going to go in after them only because by now the copper was probably gone (if we could only tell him that there was still copper in that house...but we couldnt tell him that we snuck in.)
Then WE were in a difficult situation! Because we couldnt file a complaint or even get the people out of the house because we were in fact trespassing also! Although they appriciated what we were doing, the owner of the house could in fact come in and file a complaint against us.
As we groomed the yard, there were people inside that house....killing the integrity...
I researched that house, it was built in 1875, it was the first house on that street EVER, way back when it was still considered Youngstown Township. It was owned by C.H. Krauter, who was the first pharmacist in Youngstown. In 1937 that house was marked at a half of million, today it is only worth 68,000.
It has 20 rooms, all solid oak everywhere, the copper is still in tact, and it was the first style of it's time (because Krauter designed it himself.), the Krauter's have crypt in Oak Hill Cemetary.
I just feel like giving up all hope, I am going to be contacting the owner of the house this week to find out what we can do to make it better, because it is such a beautiful house. It's horrible, I mean...this house sits vacant...it was the FIRST house ever built on that block. It's on the Historical National Registration, yet sits and rots (the house and the carriage house behind it are registered.).
I just needed to express my utter digust about everything, I want to give back to the city but everytime I pick my next small project... something is blocking it.
I don't blame you one bit. As for the cops, 99% of them are as worthless as $3.00 bills, and I have reservations about the others.
Why should we respect them when they don't do their job?
If they are like this when it comes to house strippers, what are they like when it comes to other crimes?
There is absolutely no excuse ... NONE ... for the not to have investigated in that case, and don't bother even trying to find excuses, because I won't buy them. This kind of behaviour is too common to excuse. Too many folks have had this sort of experience for it to be the exception to the rule.
Where is the "Zero Tolerance" Mayor when it comes to this topic? He is too busy finding excuses for the total incompetence of his Police Department to start cracking down on them.
IS THIS WHY THE SOUTH AND EAST SIDES OF YOUNGSTOWN ARE IN THE SHAPE THEY ARE?
Just goes to prove Bad guys win . Good guys lose. Thats why I believe in vigilantism. Otherwise do just that, crawl in a hole and give up.
Are you communicating with the owner? Do they know what's going on? If you get the owner's permission, I'll help you close the house up. We can close and reinforce all but one door. At that one door, I'd be willing to buy and install a new deadbolt. Then, we would have the key, and the house could be locked up. But, because I don't have a driver's license, I would need your help at least for transportation.
Hopefully these guys were just after the copper plumbing and/or wiring. While that can cause damage, it would be much worse if they are taking architectural items like woodwork, french doors, stained glass, etc. The electrical and plumbing systems can be repaired. But, the architectural items are often irreplaceable.
You already have my email. But in case you don't remember who I am, my email is: jcumpston -at- neo.rr.com
I will be contacting the owner this Monday. The house is registered under Mr. Robert H. Vansickle, he is also the owner of the Covington House and the Illinois Manner. He has his business on 3666 Mahoning Avenue.
I understand about the integrity of the house, but the problem is...once the copper is stripped the house is basically useless..it takes a lot of time and money to rewire and pipe a house that has been stripped.
I know for a fact a week ago that house still had all of it's copper because we had walked in there and saw much of the pipes and that exposed but still there. It was like...Vansickle had just...walked out one day and left it because there are still desks and everything, phones still hooked up, everything is still very particularly placed.
John thank you for wanting to help, please...if ANY of you would like to help... please contact me anytime this week ....John also call me and we will work something out in the way of helping out this house.
330-550-6959, I want to do like...an adopt a house thing, where maybe once a month you are designated to ahouse and you clean the trash out of the yard , plant flowers maybe? Etc etc...but then I run into issues like this and wonder how I can get around it....any ideas? CALL ME!
I'll give you a call tomorrow evening. Hopefully, you can get ahold of the owner by then.
Thanks, I appriciate it. I will be available all day tomorrow by telephone. I will be checking back onto this forum periodically to see if any new posts have been left.
Best way is to get ahold of me by telephone....I am going to the Mayors office tomorrow and setting up a meeting.
Although it doesn't quite apply to the house in question here, have you read this from the "Tales from the North Side" blog?
http://talesfromnorthside.blogspot.com/2007/07/homesteading-in-youngstown.html
This doesn't apply to 259 Park Ave, because the owner is still private, and their property taxes are still current. I wonder if the city or county could put something like this in place for houses that have been taken by the city, and are on its demolition list?
While many houses on the city's demo list were just mill housing of no great historical importance, houses like 259 Park are also on the demo list, and they should be saved, instead.
I dont believe that 259 is on the Demolition list quite yet. But then again I could be wrong. I have done my homework on this house and feel that it should be salvaged if anything. Many realtors have called me about this house because they have a lot of people that are interested in it, as well as investing money into it. Many have told me that money is no issue and that they are willing to give into this house.
Maybe we can all meet this week sometime .... in the park or somewhere nice and discuss what we can do? What does everyone think of a small meeting? I hope to recieve quite a few phone calls from all of you! Let me know what you all think.
Again, my number is 330-550-6959.
Just a suggestion
The group could meet at the North Side Farmers' Market, Elm at Illinois, on Saturday between 9 and noon. The market sets up some tables and chairs under the trees in front of the Unitarian Church.
That is totally ridiculous that the cops didn't do anything. A few months back my friend had her car stolen from the preschool where she was dropping her kids. About a week later someone called and said they found her keys. She had the cops meet her at the address the caller specified. Cop told her he wasn't knocking on the door or helping her get her keys because it was a known crackhouse. She had no choice to knock herself because she wanted her keys and to find out where her car was. Cop left her there to fend for herself. 27 years old and pregnant. He just left. What a waste.
That is HORRIBLE. Thats basically what they said to us when we asked them to check out the noises coming from inside the house. What made things worse was they labeled us with "Trespassing" just like the crackheads inside were doing, it was just a real bummer only because we were trying to help the city, and they were hurting the city...yet we are painted with the same brush.
Jay...Does the North Side Farmers market meet every Saturday? Only on certain Saturdays? I may call just like a small...emergency meeting sometime this week just to form some sort of plan.
If anyone has any ideas etc...please call me.
PS...We went back to the house today, the basement door was busted in, and a window was open... small thing slike this we notice because we are there daily. I am calling the owner, and mayor tomorrow because this is unacceptable. I believe that they need to have more strict guidelines in our area when owning a historical house....or living in the historical district. As we were there... the same suspicious car from the other night circled the house as we cleaned up, a cop ALSO circled the house and watched us board up the front door and backdoor.
The simple fact of the matter is that the people of Youngstown can no longer trust YPD ... a MAJOR VOTE OF NO CONFIDENCE, and if we can't trust them, why should people living in other communities. They certainly are not earning our respect!
Is it any wonder why there's so much crime in Youngstown? It leads me to ask if these flat feet aren't being paid off by the drug dealers.
There's absolutely no excuse for their actions, none whatsoever.
As for the Chief flatfoot, it's obvious that he couldn't care less so long as none of his boys don't rock the boat.
I do have to agree with townstalk about most of the police force. Jamie i would be willing to also help in what ever way i could.
Jaime,
The North Side Farmers' Market operates each Saturday until mid-September. The market might also be a good location to find north side residents to help you protect these houses.
I think that I will be start going to the northside farmers market....were going to make flyers, pass them out to college kids, business owners...everyone.
As for this week, what does the weather look like on Wednesday? I may call a short get together in Wick Park, just to discuss some things...possibly we can walk over to that house afterwards? There are many things I need to discuss.
Today I am contacting the Mayor, City Hall, Tim Ryan, and the owner of the house.
The thing that makes me even more mad..is the YPD officer felt it was a joke, he walked out of his car..looked around, talked to YSUPD and left....didnt even bother to walk inside.
Corey and I tried to secure the house as much as possible with the suspicious cars and that going by, hopefully...that can somewhat deter the house itself getting robbed (the basement and house are seperate.). We even told a YSUPD that we were boarding up the house, he asked if we knew the owner.,,,and we said well somewhat, were concerned citizens and caretakers of the property, he didn tseem to mind, but didnt care to lend a hand when we heard noises coming from inside.
I talked to the neighbors of this house, and they are concerned as well. They are very nice people whom also love this city, the one women has a 2 year old daughter and said that she does not want those kind of people lerking around outside. I can't say that I blame her.
Like I said, I want to know what everyone here thinks! Call me. Do you think this is worth pursuing as a project? Think I should give up?
Don't give up yet... I would at least see what the owner has to say.
The cop's attitude is unfortunate. But, to him, this is probably just another abandoned house. (one of hundreds in the city) If the owner doesn't care enough to report the crime himself, why should he (the cop) care?
This is why I say it's important to become better acquainted with the owner. Next time, you can tell the cop you have the owner's permission to be there. Then you don't have to worry about being accused of tresspassing, yourself. You are representing the owner. (I don't know if this approach has any legal weight, but it seems logical to me.)
I'll still give you a call tonight, after work. I'm free tonight, tomorrow, and Wednesday night. I won't be available Thursday, Friday, or Saturday.
I checked on the Mahoning County website for the owner of this property and Robert Van Sickle owns three historic homes on the North Side. It looks like there are tax liens on all three of them...the taxes have not been paid by him. It also looks like all three of them have been used as group homes. I don't see any evidince of Mr. Van Sickle owning a home in the area that he might actually live in. It's a shame that these historic properties can be milked by irresponsible owners for every last dollar and then left to rot with no regard for the historic value of the homes and the Youngstown area. I wish there was a way to hold the owners in these cases responsible for the damage that they create by abandoning these homes.
He does own those three yes- He owns the Illinois Manor, the Covington House and 259 Park Avenue. The Park Avenue home used to be a halfway house before turning into his offices for his businesses.
We called his business on Mahoning Avenue, his receptionist was very snippy and didn't like the idea of us caring for these houses. She said that Mr. Van Sickle is very ill and in the hospital, so now what?
I also contacted the Mayor and will set up a meeting with him soon.
Jamie...I would keep pushing the City. I am amazed that they (the City)seem to take no interest in what was in its day, the most beautiful part of Youngstown. The area around Wick park was the grand mansions of the city in the early 1900's. Other cities treasure their historic districts but Youngstown officials don't seem to care about ours. I don't know what else to suggest.
Was his receptionist preferring to see the house get stripped rather than having you take care of it??
I have recieved calls from everywhere in the city....I just got off the phone with nuisance abatement and the Demolition Control...both confirmed the house is NOT on the demo. list. Anyway.... I am marching into tomorrow to make an appointment to meet with the Mayor, it is important that I speak to him about this.
As for VanSickles receptionist, she was almost offended that we had called her about the house, I dont know if she realized that it was in THAT bad of condition? She asked what OUR intentions were and why we were cleaning it up. We told her that there are drug addicts living in that house, and there are young children around, a lot play in Wick Park, and there are little girls that live next door, that threw our endeavors with this house have gotten to meet them and get to know them and their parents.
She was a little more accepting when we said that it was a hazard that druggies were living there with young kids always in that area. The issue is that VanSickle is in the hospital because he is very ill, there may be no way that we are able to get ahold of him and figure this out. Now I'm stuck!!
Could it be because his secretary thought that you might be out to take him for his money that she was the way she was?
It would be helpful if you had a pamphlet that explained the what and why's of your project that had a note from the Mayor in it that you could be able to make available.
Armed with the blessings of the city, it would also be helpful in any contacts with YPD.
This is a historical designated area that is on the 2010 plan so there should be no question about sprucing the area up, and you would think that VanSickles secretary, knowing that you were not out to make money at her bosses expense would be glad that you were mowing the lawn and planting flowers at your own expense since if the city were to do it, he would get a hefty bill.
I understand, originally we called only to set up a meeting with VanSickle, then the questions started about why we needed to meet with him and etc etc, I almost want to have a conference call with Vansickles corporation and the Mayor, something, anything!
I think I keep missing your calls ??? try calling again, I promise this time I will pick up, Ive been on and off the phone all day talking to the city and YSU...
Jaime,
Are there any updates?
Do you still want to have a small get together in Wick Park this evening? (If so, what time?)
Hey,
No updates yet...we continue and continue to call the Mayor. We checked the house yesterday...and basement door was ripped off when we reboarded it a few days ago. I dont know what else to do.
No meeting tonight..probably next week sometime. Thanks for keeping in touch though!
Quote from: Jaime Hughes on July 25, 2007, 02:41:42 PM
We checked the house yesterday...and basement door was ripped off when we reboarded it a few days ago.
So, there's no door or plywood at all, just an opening?
To the basement door, no there is nothing covering it anymore. Corey and I boarded it up the other day, but it seems someone keeps gettin in the basement.. so no there is no ply wood on the basement door.
But to my knowledge, the house is still secured.
Jaime...I sent you a PM with some information. Let me know if you got it.
Shar,
I did recieve your message thank you. Is Officer Santangelo a friend of yours? When I call I usually tell them where I got the number from. :)
If i call the code violation number... won't that condemn the house? I'm trying to get it secured, to get the city involved and to get the owner to hand it over to SOMEBODY! Anyone!! I understand it is a code violation, but it's the oldest house on that street...I dont want to see it condemned then tore down..
Jaime...I received that number from the City of Youngstown.
If i call the code violation number... won't that condemn the house? I'm trying to get it secured, to get the city involved and to get the owner to hand it over to SOMEBODY! Anyone!! I understand it is a code violation, but it's the oldest house on that street...I dont want to see it condemned then tore down..
I was just trying to help you out with some people who might have answers to your questions. You don't have to call anyone if you don't want too. I thought you were looking for help?
Thank you for the numbers, I do appriciate them and yes I am looking for all the help I can get. The issue is, I don't want the house condemned. I want the house secured and somewhat watched until I can play mediator with the owner of the house.
Is there any news on this house? We haven't heard from you in awhile.
Just a small update on 259 Park Avenue, Kind of in a pickle with this one.
Someone is for sure living in the house now, someone is also living in the carriage house too. Some of the windows have been busted out, the back door is hanging wide open, and the basement door is hanging wide open. I, am too scared to go in alone and and almost sick to think of what the inside looks like now.
VanSickle, who owns the Illinois Manor and Covington house owns 259 Park. He doesnt care about the house and continues to hang up on me when I ask him about it. I last heard that the group Lien Forward was supposed to take care of the houses financial troubles, and that it was going to go into forclosure.
Only issue is, who will buy this house? Its a beautiful house with some much needed work, its the oldest house in the street and im afraid its going to get torn down. The first pharmacist ever to live in Youngstown lived in that house, a almost 20 room house with 2 dining rooms and a florida room... I have a feeling it will go up for demolition even though it hasnt yet.
Jaime,
You mentioned "Lien Forward" on this property. Here is some information that might help to\
save this beautiful, historic property. The current amount of back property taxes owed on it
are as follows:
1) Annual Tax $1,568.52
Taxes Paid $0.00
Delinquent Taxes $1,842.44
CINTA has bought (and possibly re-sold) the back tax lien on this property. Here
is their contact information:
2) Mail Information
SOLD TAX LIEN-OPTIMUM/CINTINA/NET
RELATIONS
RELATIONS
YOUNGSTOWN, OH 44503 USA
3) If someone can contact CINTA, they can find out how to buy the tax lien
on this property , and FORECLOSE on it for property taxes. From what I
have grown to understand, property taxes TRUMP ANY AND ALL OTHER
ENCUMBERANCES, including Bank Loans, etc, etc. Once the tax foreclosure
is complete, it SHOULD (hopefully) clear the title to this property, so that
someone else can own it FREE AND CLEAR. You might want to contact the
Mahoning County Sherrif's Department and ask about a "Sheriff's Sale" once
someone has the tax lien for this property - I know for a FACT that a
Sheriff's Sale will absolutley deliver this property free and clear to who
ever buys it for the back taxes owned - IF you can get the property to
go through this process.
In other words, somone could theoretically BUY this house for ONLY the
back taxes, and get rid of the bad loan on the place, for free.
I hope this information helps.
Allan
:)
If I only had the money. I would make this house into something beautiful. I snuck into the inside...I'm just speechless and what I saw. If I knew the real extent of all the damages then I can further assess the situation. I wish that it isnt such an eyesore...because it has very much potential.
Who would be interested in buying this house? It needs A LOT of TLC... a lot of people arent willing to give that.
Allan, I would love to meet you sometime! You are a very very interesting character.