Mahoning Valley Forum

Citizens of Youngstown,

The mayor refuses to protect you from the dangers of fracking.
City council has refused to protect you.
The Ohio Department of Natural Resources won't protect you either.

Your only option is to pass the Community Bill of Rights to take back local control of what industrial processes are allowed in our city.

Vote YES for the Community Bill of Rights on Tuesday, May 6th.

I don't consider myself a socialist but I am voting yes for the community bill of rights to take a stand against my government telling me I'm not entitled to clean water and clean land. I am also voting against the sales tax. How much more will they take from us and what services do we really receive?

Vote YES for the Community Bill of Rights and stand up against piperfitter unions thugs and evil greedy government officials who do the will of corporations and not the people!!!!!

Wake up and smell the coffee my friend, the city IS NOT trying to deny you, me or anyone else FRESH CLEAN AND PURE WATER, BUT the socialist ANTI-AMERICAN leftists like BG are filling you with so much pornographic lies so that you will fall for their propaganda.
It's the very government that these HEATHENS rale against that have established to agencies that guarintee you safe food ... safe water ... safe air ... safe work places ... while the leaches like BG and his gang would have all these things denied to you and force you to live under conditions not too unlike those that the people of North Korea are forced to live under.
Are we suggesting that you are a socialist Billy? Absolutely not, BUT we are saying that you are a blind disolusioned fool if you allow them to put a ring through your nose and lead you over a cliff with them.
Will these people put so much as one slice of bread on your table if you vote heir way? HELL NO!
Will these people help you through some financial hard times? HELL NO!
Will these people be there to help you through a medical emergency? HELL NO!
Think about this Billy ... why won't BG engage in debate with us or even respond to serious questions that we might want answered?
What does BG have to hide? The fact of the matter is that we know absolutely NOTHING about BG so why should we trust this person?

Towntalk....

Will fracking put so much as one slice of bread on my table if I vote their way? HELL NO!
Will fracking help me through some financial hard times? HELL NO!
Will fracking be there to help me through a medical emergency? HELL NO!

The frackers have been at it for months now and they have not put bread on my table....they have not helped me through my current financial problems and have not helped me pay for a $10,000 plus hospital stay for my son last month.....

So your arguments are weak...

When Ron, Rick, and the frackers do donate food to my family, help us out of debt, and pay hospital bills I will bow down and become a fracker.....but this will never happen...I guarantee it.....

Dennis my friend, for my whole life no one ever lifted a single finger to help us through hard times, and there were plenty of them.
As you well know, while I might not agree with you 100% of the time, I do have a whole lot of respect for you, and remember you and your family in my prayers, and I would like to talk to you about an idea that I have for a show on WKTL.
Also, for 22 years I was a dues paying member of a union that gave us a shafting at every turn so I am no great supporter for any union, so on this point we have something in common, so anything I might say about people like BG most certainly do not apply to you.
Have a great day, my friend.

A General Campaign Question

What does it cost to use robo calls?  I received 5 so far pertaining to this issue.

What does it cost to do mass mailings?  I received a different one each week for the last month.



Another Question

Are any of the local candidates placing ads on the internet?  I had a John Kasich ad pop up a few days ago.

I've gotten several ... one today from the Mayor.

So I suppose that because you don't receive DIRECT benefits then it is of no value?
Fracking makes it possible that people have money to purchase from stores, making them profitable and able to have bread on their shelves when you want it.
Fracking helps you through your difficult times by saving you $300 a year in natural gas bills
Fracking makes it possible to have better staffed hospitals with better doctors, because all of the people around you with good fracking jobs and royalty checks demand better service from their hospital.

So open your eyes and see that the benefits you get are not always plainly visible, but they do exist.  A wealthier community is always a better place to live than a poorer one.

Just how true it is I can not say, but I heard that the supporters for the Community Bill of Rights are already having a new set of petitions printed up just in case the issue fails to win in today's election, and they will hit the streets starting tomorrow so that they can get it back on the ballot for the General Election in November.

Ricky...talk about stretching things a tad bit....thanks for your pure BS.....now go back and play in your junkyard....

I voted yes. It's time for citizens to make local decisions regarding their land and water.

Billy you are trying to take my right away, why?

Are you trying to take my right away from me?

MAJORITY RULES WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT BILLY ... THAT'S THE SYSTEM SO LIVE WITH IT ... IF YOUR SIDE WINS WE LOSE OUR RIGHTS ... IF OUR SIDE WINS YOU LOSE YOURS ... WE'LL KNOW BY 10:30 P.M. TONIGHT WHO IS THE WINNER AND WHO IS THE LOSER.

Early results show CBR winning by slim margen.

BOARD OF ELECTIONS RESULTS - 9:10 PM

YES - 1482 -- 46.49%
NO - 1706 -- 53.51%

Word from Ytown Leadership is that from now on the Fractivist will have to pay for the entire election process if they bring this CRAP up again.  Us workers, have to pay attention to our jobs and also watch out for the FrackPots, while the FrackPots sit on their butts and think up non productive Sh%t like this.

9:40 P.M.
YES - 3100 -- 45.75
NO - 3674 -- 54.24%

THE VOTERS IN THE 6th and 7th WARDS LEADING THE DRIVE TO DEFEAT THE ANTI-FRACKING CHARTER AMENDMENT.

Billy's last post represents how warped anti-frackers are.  Billy!  how can I be taking away your mineral right when my side doesn't want a "ban" on trading them?  You are a fool to want to ban ME from MY decision whatsoever on my property.

Poor Billy must be heart broken, despondent, discouraged, and disillusioned at the outcome of today's primary results. :) ;D :laugh: :laugh: ;D :)

The people have spoken.  So its time for the anti frackers to respect the will of the people, put away their signs and petitions and live with what the majority has decided.  But nooooo, they will do this all over again, because the only time that they listen to the will of the people is when the people agrees with them.  Its that smug superiority that liberals have, and their inability to believe that anyone knows better than they do.

 Where were the "educated" voters in the 2^nd; 3^rd; 4^th; and parts of the 5^th wards that they couldn't carry the day for the so-called Citizens Bill of Rights that went down to defeat in the Primaries? I was under the impression that the folks on the West Side were the intellectual giants while the rest of the city save the 3^rd Ward were intellectuals of lesser intelligence, lacking the intellect to function in today's society.

Your response to Billy has been quite childish......He simply went out and voted his conscience only to be ridiculed and laughed at after the vote was in.....

This is why I have very little respect for you so-called compassionate conservatives.......It's just wrong......but what should I expect from the less educated in this valley?

 As I so accurately reported yesterday, Susie Beiersdorfer through tears last night announced that her group will begin circulating petitions to get the Citizens Bill of Rights back on the ballot in the next election, and will keep coming back until she gets the results that she wants.
Through her tears she cried out that the election had been stolen, and that the vote totals were not accurate.
By the way, it was the Vindicator that reported that Mrs. Beiersdorfer was in tears as she spoke to the Vindicator reporter, so the cartoon should have been a lady not a man, but I suspect that her husband was in the background crying his heart out with her.
As for our friend Billy, no Dennis I don't make fun of him ... he exercised his right, and that's more than a whole lot of other Youngstowners can say who didn't go out and vote. It's them that I hold in contempt, not the Billy's of this world.

http://www.vindy.com/news/2014/may/07/youngstown-fracking-ban-fails-for-third-/ (http://www.vindy.com/news/2014/may/07/youngstown-fracking-ban-fails-for-third-/)

I was at the board of elections last night during the whole count and the vote totals were accurate.....I believe one of the news outlets posted a wrong total at some point in the night.....the election was not stolen in my opinion.

The problem on election night is they pass out the returns after a batch is run and the reporters by phone read numbers to folks back at the station...the environment is noisy and more than once the reporters have to correct folks back at the station if they copied down the wrong numbers....not a perfect system.....

I noticed that myself because the three sources that I used ... WKBN; WFMJ; and The Vindicator were not giving consistant vote totals so I went solely by the numbers that the Board of Elections was feeding on it's web site.
Folks that have a dog in the fight should not rely on what the media reports but should go solely by what's posted on the BOE web site, that way a lot of confusion canbe avoided.

Yeah right!  The election was stolen or the THIRD TIME!  Why should anyone give Beirsdorfer the time of day if she is that delusional?

Rick,
Like I heard from YTown leadership, they are going to require the Biersdorfer ilk pay for all the cost us taxpayers have to fork out for their wanton spoiled brat GAME.  Unbelievable how they can't take NO and they arrogantly want to ram it down our throats.

By the way, where is BG this morning?

We have just begun to fight.

Billy, this gives some importance to your life doesn't it?  :)

I just want no toxic chemicals being dumped down fracking holes.

That's what Norman Thomas said every four years for dozens of Presidential elections, and that is also what Gus Hall also said for an equal number BUT neither man even came close to winning the White House.
People like Susie are a distraction, but nothing more and in time the media will lose interest in her and her followers.

Maybe it is time to quit beating a dead horse......You win Ron, Rick, and TT.....

Dennis, it's not a question of winning or losing from my perspective, it's a case of being realistic, and the group pushing this issue is not being realistic. They may be university professors, but apparently they have absolutely no understanding of settled law, but see themselves as being above the law and a law unto themselves.
They've been told that local laws can not superseed state or federal law, yet that makes not a bit of difference to them ... example Youngstown can not hamper interstate commerce period, and there are no exceptions period.
When out of state companies started filling up local landfills, Youngstown tried to regulate who could or could not use our landfills, or transport landfill material through the city only to be told that they did not have the authority to hamper interstate commerce.
There are federal regulations governing interstate transporting fracking liquids just as there are Clean Air and Clean Water laws, and they all superseed any regulations a community enact, and if a local community tried to enforce those local regulations, they would be struck down in the federal courts.

The local anti-fracking measure is being driven by a group of anarchists who see themselves as the final arbiter on every matter  under the heavens above, and the majority of the voters have said no to them, and they'll keep saying no because Frack-free has never changed it's fundamental message, and it's interesting to note that the final vote count for each of their times on the ballot has been the same general percentage.

I think that the law that permit citizens ballot initiatives needs to be amended so that an issue can only come up for vote a maximum of two times in five years or even longer, so as to avoid this situation.  Putting this on the ballot yet again is akin to throwing a tantrum because you can't get your way.  The people have voted three times. I think we all know by now what they want.  So its time to give this up and live with the vote. 

Please first excuse me for being so blunt, but this crazyness really riles me up, so if any of you don't like the terminology that I'll use, just get a life and move on unless you want the sharp end of my tongue, because I'm in no mood to be politically correct. These self-centered egotistical anarchists are not only doing harm to the community as a whole, but they are also doing harm to the University that is putting bread on their table via the tax payers and feeding their brats... they are therefore parasitic leaches that should be held in contempt by the hard working folks that pay the taxes that help keep YSU open.
Oh I know that these leaches pay taxes just as the rest of us do, but the amount that they pay in no way covers what it costs to keep the university going, and anyone who says any differently is a bald faced liar! If you combined the taxes payed by everyone who works for YSU, that amount would never cover the total expences for keeping the university open, so what Susie and her old man pay in taxes is just a drop in the porta-potty, and just as useless in the grand scheme of things, and I have more contempt for them than I have for the worst criminal making their way through the county's justice system, and it angers me that so many well meaning people fall for their propaganda simply because they are university teachers as if that makes them creatures so great that their words are as coming from God.

Billy, you have that right NOW!  as long as it is your FRACKING HOLE!  I know you get it but are being unfair, you are smarter than that.  On my Land and private Land, it is none of your business what we do as long as it does not affect you.  Show us where a COURT DECISION was made that fracking harmed you or any of you ilk?

Ricky.....I'm surprised you want government to limit a citizen's right to petition it's government. I thought you dis-trust government and dislike far-reaching government

powers?

Are you now no longer a tea-bagger?

But once you vote and lose three times, you have had your say and you must either live with it or wait for support to change in your favor before trying again. 

Sorry Ricky, but people have the right to petition their government...it's in the Constitution.....and there is no limit on petitioning...or don't you support the Constitution, you commie socialist?

Dennis,  I agree with you, as long as they pay for the cost and not the taxpayers.

Ron....your last statement is unacceptable as well......citizens having to pay to address and petition their government? WOW!!!!!!

Then I guess the only people left in America would be corporations!!!!!!

(I still need to get over and see you in Poland...you only there on Saturdays?)

Dennis, I mean after rejection the first time, they should pick up the tab.
I'm always in the store Sat. don't protest my store now  :laugh: .