Mahoning Valley Forum

cf Talk To The Mayor message with link that was posted here on 1/16/2014 by me.

I hope a lot of people take advantage of this opportunity to speak with the mayor.

This could be a good way to increase business at downtown restaurants on weekday evenings.  Perhaps some restaurants could give out discount coupons to those waiting to see the mayor.

Did any forum members meet with the mayor today? How did it go? how many people wee there?

I went and was systematically beaten :)

and you liked it and said "Thank you sir, can I have another?"

Ron - that was a good one....  LMAO.

:D

The Mayor better plan on starting MUCH earlier in the day if he gets any
kind of attendance on a regular basis.  I think I read the phrase "as long
as it takes" mentioned somewhere, with regard to how long he will stay
on these days.

Hope he's ready to deliver on that one....

my wait was one hr. the wait went fast. i spoke for five minutes while jm took notes. i met and talked to people while i stood in line that you normal would not have the opportunity to meet and talk to in your daily life.

Proof that this initiative will have a two-fold affect.


Not only do we get to blow off steam with the mayor for 5 minutes, but we get to meet and socialize with people we may not otherwise ever see.


I wonder if he had that in mind when he started this. hmmm...  ;)

pg that is a possibility on his pt.

I applaud the new mayor for this initiative.  It's great to see a mayor who, at least,
is trying to take a better interest in the issues which are important to the citizens
of Youngstown.

Now someone needs to complain about the idiotic fashion in which city council
meetings are done.

Someone has been complaining about council meetings.
They do not care.

allan the new mayor is well aware of current council procedures.

Well, if the new mayor is unwilling to make any changes, it's probably time for some
folks to complain to the local media - The News Outlet.org is not beholden to local
government and would probably be interested in publishing an article, if enough
of his constituents were to come forward and complain.

Just a thought....nothing like a good news article to put a little pressure on him and
put city council in a bad light for their idiocy.....

whoa, no one said the mayor is unwilling to make any changes.  He's only been in office a short while and, imo, there are more pressing matters. 
Give the man time.  I'm sure he'll get to it.

Why don't you send him a letter of suggestion on this, Allan?

By the way, City Council has been in a bad light for their idiocy for years. Hasn't done any good yet.

City Council members recently hinted that they are willing to hold a special session to revise the rules of council.  Some of these changes may come from the proposals suggested by the Charter Review Commission.

Keep Your Fingers Crossed.

if, they allow an open dialogue while council is in session that will be a big leap for ytown council.

Councilman Nate Pinkard (3rd ward) actually asked for public participation at a recent meeting of the council safety committee.  Now that's a move in the right direction.

when did this occurred?

Quote from: Peggy Gurney on January 24, 2014, 08:21:44 AM
whoa, no one said the mayor is unwilling to make any changes.  He's only been in office a short while and, imo, there are more pressing matters. 
Give the man time.  I'm sure he'll get to it.

Why don't you send him a letter of suggestion on this, Allan?

By the way, City Council has been in a bad light for their idiocy for years. Hasn't done any good yet.

Peggy,

That is why I qualified my statement by using  the word ** IF. **  I've already lauded Mayor McNally
for his new 5 minutes with the Mayor initiative and offered suggestions on how he could
make it even more successful and better for people who make the trip to city hall.

I have also stated elsewhere on the forum that he is very well qualified for the position of
Mayor due to his skills, education and previous service in local government.

If nothing has been done about council meetings in the past, it's because their leadership
did not pressure them to do what they should have done on their own.  Doesn't council report
to the Mayor's office?

Charles Sammarone has the unique distinction of having served on city council for years,
as well as being the last mayor and now council president again.  Sammarone was my vice
principal when I was in high school at Rayen....one would think that a man with a background
in education would be more willing to learn new and better ways to do things - and not-so-new
and better ways - LIKE USING A COMPUTER!!

Mayor McNally needs to put his FOOT up Mr. Sammarone's REAR END and make something
change. 

I'm hoping that people who actually LIVE in Youngstown right now will take some initiative.  I am
only offering some ideas from here in MD.

AllanY,

You evidently skipped the classes in government when you and Sammarone were at THE Rayen School. Actually it seems as though Sammarone skipped them also.

City Council does not report to the Mayor any more than Congress reports to the President! Two separate branched of Government - Legislative (city council) and Executive (Mayor), both autonomous of each other, but both answer to the voters. If you have an issue with city council, and I agree there are many, don't blame the Mayor. He cannot compel them to change anything.

Quote from: jazz218 on January 25, 2014, 07:01:06 AM
AllanY,

You evidently skipped the classes in government when you and Sammarone were at THE Rayen School. Actually it seems as though Sammarone skipped them also.

City Council does not report to the Mayor any more than Congress reports to the President! Two separate branched of Government - Legislative (city council) and Executive (Mayor), both autonomous of each other, but both answer to the voters. If you have an issue with city council, and I agree there are many, don't blame the Mayor. He cannot compel them to change anything.

Jazz,

It's not a matter of skipping classes in government at Rayen High School - they never gave a detailed
breakdown of the legal structure and hierarchy of the government of the city of Youngstown,
so perhaps you're only assuming that I skipped government classes while attending "THE"
Rayen School because you were "evidently" unaware of that fact until now.

Now, regardless of the fact that council members are not "direct reports" to the mayor, ( thanks for
pointing that out...) can we both agree that the office of mayor is the highest in city government?  Please
do let us know if we are on the same page here...or if there is another city official who out ranks him
that THE Rayen School also failed to tell me about...

As the "top cop in the entire shop"  of city government, is it reasonable to deduce that the new mayor
can apply pressure - via whatever means or mechanisms are available to him as the leader of the entire
city - to effect change, given the input of the good citizens of the city?

Is it not reasonable to find fault with Sammarone as a contributing factor in the problems that citizens
have repeatedly complained about with regard to city council meetings and how they are conducted?
After all, he has held the offices of mayor, city council person and city council president - and should
already be painfully aware of the issues from the mayor's and council's points of view, as well as that of
Youngstown's citizens.

My apologies for not being as utterly astute as yourself with regard to the City of Youngstown's
"Org Chart".

Now with regard to the word "compel" - there are various ways to try and "compel" them into effecting
change - he can talk to them, try to persuade them, use the bully pulpit of local radio, local TV, local
newspaper(s),  try and embarass them into effecting change, challenge them to change, encourage them
to change, CAJOLE them into it, etc.

It has been said that the new mayor is Social Media savvy.... why not use it to pressure council?

He could attend council meetings WITH with citizens who have complaints, ask to speak before council
and then put them on the spot (while "on the record")   Can we both agree that he would very likely be
given the courtesy of speaking and receiving their full attention, and that he might receive more favorable
treatment if the media were present when he voiced the concerns and complaints of those he brought with
him?

Allan Y,

Spin it and make excuses any way you want. Bottom line is you are just one of the many uninformed masses who engages the mouth (or in this case the keyboard) before the cerebellum kicks in. Someone once said: "People get the government they deserve".

Complain about government, but don't take a second to learn how the Constitution (and in this case the city charter) actually works. The "legal structure and hierarchy" as you refer to it in Youngstown city government is no different than it is on the federal level. Now don't tell me THE Rayen School didn't teach you that either? If so, your parents should have demanded a refund of their tax dollars!

Here's an idea.... Why don't you write a letter to city council and tell them yourself how you feel? There you go...democracy in action!

Read a book!!!

Quote from: jazz218 on January 26, 2014, 06:34:14 AM
Allan Y,

Spin it and make excuses any way you want. Bottom line is you are just one of the many uninformed masses who engages the mouth (or in this case the keyboard) before the cerebellum kicks in. Someone once said: "People get the government they deserve".

Complain about government, but don't take a second to learn how the Constitution (and in this case the city charter) actually works. The "legal structure and hierarchy" as you refer to it in Youngstown city government is no different than it is on the federal level. Now don't tell me THE Rayen School didn't teach you that either? If so, your parents should have demanded a refund of their tax dollars!

Here's an idea.... Why don't you write a letter to city council and tell them yourself how you feel? There you go...democracy in action!

Read a book!!!

Jazz,

This isnt about spin or excuses... what are you talking about?  I though the topic(s) being discussed
were the 5 minutes with the mayor stuff and the complaints made about/changes needed with
the way city council conducts it's meetings?  (and the fact that this has not changed in such a long
time...and why....)

I lived the first half of my life in Youngstown, before moving to the D.C./VA/MD and I plan on coming
home to Youngstown in a couple years when I retire.  I have family in the area and I own property in
Youngstown right in the neighborhood where I grew up.  As such, I care deeply about Youngstown and
want to see her succeed and be better than when I left 25 years ago - when I come back to live there
again in a few years.  All of this means that I have just as much a vested interested in Youngstown as
anyone else on this forum.

I read the local news, vindy, etc online and, most of all I participate on this forum because I still care
about my home town and try to keep up on things none of which, of course, will keep me as well
infomed as some of you who actually live in Youngstown. Uhhh... no brainer there.....

If I lived there right now, trust me - I'd have been waiting in line for 5 minutes with the new mayor.  Being
300 miles away tends to preclude getting physically involved on that level.   The next best thing I have
to offer are suggestions on how things could get better - to those of you with boots on the ground.

If you disagree with my views you are, of course, free to do so - making remarks regarding your
mis-perception of my level of education or the content therein earns you no merit here.  Personal
attacks are a sign of someone who either feels they are losing in a debate - or simply has a lack of
good debate skills.

I have many friends on this forum, and we agree on some things, disagree on others - but in each and
every case, we do not make personal attacks while debating our differences of opinion - and my
friends reference facts and real-world data in their arguments (be they "for" or "against" a given issue,
etc) to make their case - not remarks about what high school the other person attended, the correct
number of words in the full name of the school - irrelevant.

If you have factual info that may enlighten the other party to something you think they did not know, or
convince them that your view is the correct one - simply present it.  I respect others' views and opinions
even when I do not share them.

Please do the same in kind.


Could the next person say something to get us back on topic?   LOL .......thanks

Jazz is another one of those faceless, nameless trolls who have opinions but will not back them up with their true identity.  What are you hiding from Jazz?

Just as President Obama uses the bully pulpit to persuade Congress into going his way on issues, the mayor can do the same to cajole city council.  I do not see a problem with this. 

What does identity have to do with opinion? Will my identity change your perception of my opinion? Last time I checked, this was still a free country.

Bottom line is that lip service like "The Mayor can cajole city council" is unproductive nonsense. It's up to the voters to "cajole" city council at the ballot box. If you don't like what they're doing, vote against them, or better yet, RUN against them!

Rick, your argument about Congress and the President is absurd. What has the President "cajoled" Congress into doing? Last time I checked, not much is getting done because each branch of government has drawn their own line in the sand. I haven't seen much cajoling.

What I am saying is that the public has to get more active in the democratic process and send their elected officials a message. Posting silly comments on blogs and message boards expecting someone else to do it for you won't work. That's precisely why there is so much displeasure with Youngstown government - too much meaningless lip service instead of action.

Tell you what Rick, you run for city council and I'll tell you who I am. Fair enough?

Blogs and message boards all over the net are evolving into "true identity" debate.  In other words, if you can't stand up with your God given name, you automatically lose.
However, if one wishes to remain incognito they may as long as they are not trying to debate or attack.

Jazz, you join this forum with an assumed name and with a foul attitude and so far have attacked nearly everyone here, getting upset over innocuous comments.  If this is how you conduct your affairs in life you must be a very small, pitiful person.   Go crawl back under whatever rock you came from

Well Rick, sorry, but sometimes the truth hurts.

Can't seem to find my rock, it must be frozen over...have a nice day!

who is going this week for five minutes with the mayor?

OK folks,

Here is an affirmation of what I was talking about with regard to the mayor, and using his
ability to force city council into redistricting the wards like they should have done a
long time ago.


Way to go,  Your Honor, Mayor McNally  

To Jazz218 - who was chastising me for no knowing more about local government - looks like
I was right all along when I suggested the Mayor could cajole city council to do the right
thing.

Geez, I feel vindicated.....lol.

:-)

But more importantly, I am happy that th The Mayor and the people of Youngstown CAN force Gilliam and
all the rest to do what they're paid for and SERVE them instead of sand bagging for their own benefit


http://www.vindy.com/news/2014/feb/25/youngstown-council-flaunts-constitution-/?newswatch

Allan, you really, really need to pay more attention to what you read, and please take some time to learn a little something about how government works. It is a little scary to think that many other voters (I'm assuming that you vote) could be as uninformed as you are.

The article you reference is an editorial, and as such is an opinion of the Vindicator's editorial board. They suggest the possibility of a taxpayer lawsuit, which is consistent with my suggestion that dealing with the dysfunctionality of city council is primarily up to the voters who put them into office (thus, TAXPAYER LAWSUIT).

In regard to McNally's reluctance to authorize executive branch approval of additional studies for ward redistricting, this is exactly what I was originally referring to as the separation of powers between the legislative and executive branches. city council can legislate, but the administration is responsible for implementation.

You state that the mayor can "force" city council to act in a certain manner. Please identify where the article you cite suggests this and how it  suggests that McNally should accomplish this, or how YOU propose the mayor should accomplish this outside of his statutory authority as the city's chief executive?