NSP has received preliminary approval for the tax credits they have applied for,
and already has a location picked out in downtown.
This company may bring as many as 300 jobs, according to an article in the
Business Journal. 300 GOOD paying jobs.
Let's all keep our fingers crossed and hope the deal goes through....
And those jobs come with another huge tax abatement that hinders schools and government. The 300 employees end up the only people paying their full share of taxes.
Here is the article:
http://businessjournaldaily.com/economic-development/decision-soon-nsp-downtown-project-300-jobs-2013-12-18 (http://businessjournaldaily.com/economic-development/decision-soon-nsp-downtown-project-300-jobs-2013-12-18)
Read and digest this article Billy.
http://www.vindy.com/news/2013/dec/18/former-mayor-addresses-senate-committee/ (http://www.vindy.com/news/2013/dec/18/former-mayor-addresses-senate-committee/)
Quote from: Billy Mumphrey on December 18, 2013, 06:45:48 AM
And those jobs come with another huge tax abatement that hinders schools and government. The 300 employees end up the only people paying their full share of taxes.
Billy, are you saying that you would rather not see 300 good paying, I.T. positions
created in the city - 300 people paying city taxes, spending money at retail stores in the
area, etc? The tax abatements are not 100%, so the company would still be paying some
taxes until the abatement period is over.
Any way you look at it, this would be a good thing for the city and the county......
abatements or not.
If any of these positions bring in people from outside the city/county to relocate
here, and any of them should buy a home, then there would be additional
revenues in the form of property taxes.
Yes. If corporations are considered "people" then they need to pay full taxes or employees should get a "tax abatement" as well.
Billy, You may remember this one.
(http://0.tqn.com/d/politicalhumor/1/7/Q/J/4/corporations-people-texas-execute.jpg)
And don't forget the 300 would be paying property tax that goes to support schools. Sure, not all of the 300 will be living in the city but education is education, no matter which side of the fence it falls on. (No matter which city they choose to live in.)
If they rent, they won't pay property taxes. Corporations and business should get no tax breaks. It's that simple. If I have to pay full taxes, so should they.
:P
Quote education is education, no matter which side of the fence it falls on
So where do the Youngstown schools rank in comparison to the surrounding suburban schools?
Great guys, so we tell any and all businesses that consider coming to Youngstown ... "No tax breaks ... no grants ... nothing ... you foot 100% or go somewhere else dude, we ain't running a charity at tax payers expense." Great, so no company comes to Youngstown ... no new stores ... no new restaurants ... nothing. What the hell do we gain by that sort of thinking!
How many of the new restaurants that came to the west side came there on their own dime with not a single penny of tax payers money?
How much tax dollars have been spent on Mahoning Commons over the years?
Billy, wouldn't you love the opportunity to have a good paying job with benefits, or would you say "NO" if the business received a grant, or some tax breaks?
Yes. :laugh:
Yes to taking the job or yes to refusing the job? ???
Until they are outlawed everywhere, (which I don't think it likely) I'm OK with continuing to give tax breaks as incentives for a business to locate somewhere. A community that refuses to offer these incentives may gain a little extra respect, but will ultimately lose out, financially.
And for the record, renters also pay property taxes; just indirectly.
Lets get this misconception out of the way. Renters DO NOT pay property taxes! They pay RENT! It is up to the landlord to decide what to spend that rent payment on, and the landlord could choose not to pay property taxes on his rental properties. A renter cannot stand up in court and make the case that his home should not be foreclosed on because he was paying property taxes all along as part of his rent. Judge Milich would laugh him out of court!
Tax subsidies are a fact of life these days as cities compete with each other for the scraps of capitalism that still exist in this country. I will not oppose any action taken to reduce a tax burden, even if it unevenly applied as abatements are.
I will not oppose tax abatements that bring good paying jobs to
the area. The benefits far outweigh the abatements. Don't forget
that this business will very likely spend money with other related
businesses in the area as well.
The average median income in Youngstown is about $24K per year.
The average I.T. job pays $50k to $55k per year. Do the math.
There is always a ripple effect. As more tech jobs come to the area,
rents will eventually go up - and hopefully landlords will pay their
property taxes like they should. Rick is absolutely right - tenants
pay nothing towards property taxes - that is the landlord's duty.
If there were enough good paying jobs in the county, maybe they
could re-assess property values and raise the property taxes a
little.
My property taxes on my residence in MD are almost TEN TIMES what
they are for my property on Illinois Ave - for a house HALF THE SIZE.
That sits on a lot ONE FOURTH the size.
Yup, let's cut taxes to corporations who can afford to pay them. So how does the state make up for lost taxes? Oh, let's raise the sales tax or income taxes on employees who can't afford it. It's time we close tax loopholes for corporations.
Quote from: Rick Rowlands on December 20, 2013, 12:07:42 AM
Lets get this misconception out of the way. Renters DO NOT pay property taxes! They pay RENT! It is up to the landlord to decide what to spend that rent payment on, and the landlord could choose not to pay property taxes on his rental properties. A renter cannot stand up in court and make the case that his home should not be foreclosed on because he was paying property taxes all along as part of his rent. Judge Milich would laugh him out of court!
That's why I said indirectly. If renters vote in favor of a school levy, for example, and the property taxes on the property they rent goes up, you don't think the landlord (assuming they do their duty and pay their property taxes like Allan said) will raise their rent to cover the additional taxes?
Quote from: Billy Mumphrey on December 20, 2013, 06:40:08 AM
Yup, let's cut taxes to corporations who can afford to pay them. So how does the state make up for lost taxes? Oh, let's raise the sales tax or income taxes on employees who can't afford it. It's time we close tax loopholes for corporations.
This varies, depending on the circumstances. In the case of this company getting a tax break, there are no lost taxes, because the company would be opening new facilities here. But, if a company that's already present gets tax abatements to move to a neighboring community, then there are indeed lost taxes.
Forty-five percent of the companies and municipalities that received state assistance for development projects failed to live up to their promises such as creating and retaining jobs, training workers or investing in equipment, according to an annual report released Thursday by Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine.
Read more about it here at http://bit.ly/19dy3sD
That is a problem with the state not enforcing their own policies.
I Like observing Billy, he is the specimen of the American responsible for economic collapse of America ;D and Jay is the other experiment.
It is called "spoiled mental state." You do not have to be rich for this desease to pummel you, just spoiled from the generation that had it all. This impairment affects the entitled in America, the parasites. The Americans who have everything given to them for their meager existence. You show me a liberal and I will show you one inflicted by this desease.
;D Silence when the truth hits hard.
Billy also makes assumptions that can not be supported by sound facts concerning the 300 new jobs by saying that they would be renters as opposed to home owners. Hypothetical assumptions are simply unsupportable in fact as well as theory. Recently the president of the Board of Realtors reported that the sale of homes is up in Mahoning County ... way up ... and the 300 would be making the level of income that would allow them to purchase a home.
All this said, until Network Solutions Provider is up and running, we can not make assumptions because when the word is broken down, you know what the result is.
Quote from: Billy Mumphrey on December 20, 2013, 06:40:08 AM
Yup, let's cut taxes to corporations who can afford to pay them. So how does the state make up for lost taxes? Oh, let's raise the sales tax or income taxes on employees who can't afford it. It's time we close tax loopholes for corporations.
Billy,
Your argument has no merit - someone making 55K a year working I.T. is already paying more taxes
because of HOW MUCH they make, versus the median income (24K/year) jobs - WITHOUT
any increases in the tax rates - state OR local.
Think about it.......there is still a net GAIN in tax revenues...ie: The local and state governments will
still be receiving revenues that they otherwise would not have AT ALL without these new positions,
because these will be new jobs that did not exist before.
As far as renter versus owner, riddle me this:
If I were one these new employees with a salary in this range, why the HELL would I want to
rent in an area where one can buy a home for less than the cost of most new SUV's (trucks)?
My 2003 Ford Expedition cost me more than my property on Illinois Ave - a property in
decent condition and city-licensed, inspected.
The fact that we would support taxing individuals 100% and not corporations is sad. What would Pope Francis think?
Billy, it may be Christmas ... a time for peace and joy, but when you say that anyone would support taxing people 100% ... that is a flat out lie and you know it. No one has ever suggested that the government tax us 100% ever in the whole history of our country, nor could they ever so I suggest that you sit back and ponder your words before you post such utter nonsense.
Would it make you happy if the government tax business 100% and individuals 0%? I think you would ... you would also be overjoyed if these businesses supplied you with all your needs at no cost to you, and this my friend will never happen.
Think about this for a second ...
Well, then those corporations should take their tax abatements and use those savings to pay workers a living wage.
And who says they don't? Do you think that the auto workers at Lordstown are making slave wages?
If corporations don't have to pay their fair share of taxes, then let's also reduce the local income tax for the average Joe/Jane living in Youngstown by eliminating the city income tax.
Then where would we be? ::)
Good analegy Jay. Some folks do not consider the consequences of their ideas, or its impact on the community at large. In the end though, they end up the losers with nothing to show for their misguided efforts.
Allan, it's Christmas.Give it a break.
Yes Allan, give it a break till 12:01AM then Christmas will be over then we can take up where we left off. >:)
Merry Xmas Billy.
Lieralism never takes a holiday. Actually liberalism would like to abolish holidays as they are oppressive and discriminatory.
So in defiance I say MERRY CHRISTMAS!
Watch for another large downtown accounting firm to pack up and move to the suburbs.
Is Councilwoman Gillam aware of this? :-X
Will City Council ever make a move to reduce the city income tax? :-\
{1} How many jobs would be involved?
{2} How much of their business involves walk in traffic?
{3} What is the location of their client base?
{4} By moving out of the city, how much revenue would be lost to the city?
{5} Who are their target clients ... individual ... corporate ... both?
{6} So many questions and so few answers at this point.
Sorry everyone didn't mean to be a Grinch. My job made me work overnight for Christmas Eve
and Christmas day...... uggggghhhhhhh
I have deleted my last post.
Quote from: jay on December 25, 2013, 08:23:03 PM
Watch for another large downtown accounting firm to pack up and move to the suburbs.
Is Councilwoman Gillam aware of this? :-X
Will City Council ever make a move to reduce the city income tax? :-\
City income tax is a major killer to business growth in the city... The liberal vs. conservative argument on taxes is exemplified in the city of Youngstown. Liberals want higher taxes to pay the bills, while conservatives want lower taxes to create jobs. In Youngstown, we have used the liberal argument and with the likes of Cafaro soon on the way out, among others, I hope our new Mayor takes note.
I Think the city should consider reducing the city income tax rate. They should
take an average among other Ohio cities that have a local income tax and
then consider something more realistic.
This tax is squeezing hard working people who are already struggling to pay
all of the bills and put food on the table at the same time.
The tax probably does have an effect on the job market and how attractive the city
is to businesses who might consider expanding in, or relocating to, Youngstown.
Has this idea been proposed to Mayor McNally? It's certainly a good one, and if pushed by the right people who are in a position to make life miserable for Council members, it could happen.
Please remember that a city income tax increase or a city income tax decrease has to be approved by the voters of Youngstown.
I don't think the mayor or city council would push this idea.
The only other way to do it would be through a citizen petition drive to place an income tax decrease on the ballot. Petition drives are too difficult for a few citizens to successfully undertake and the mayor and council know that.
I'm not against a reduction in the income tax. But I wonder if people are willing to accept the decrease in city services that would follow?