New Downtown Theater?
Plans are for an amphitheatre downtown in the rear of the Covelli Center.
http://www.vindy.com/news/2013/dec/09/council-mulls-plan-to-hire-designer-for-/ (http://www.vindy.com/news/2013/dec/09/council-mulls-plan-to-hire-designer-for-/)
This would be a great thing so that local talent could be showcased in a venue that isn't as large as the Center as well as other events.
McNally is right, they need to pay their debt off first.
Mill Creek Park's outdoor Morley Pavilion is only used one evening each week during three months of the summer.
The big difference Jay is the fact that the amphitheater would be tied into the Lovell Center which has direct ties with national booking agencies which would allow it to book in shows that are on tour. There are a lot of bands that while recording for national labels do not yet have the draw power to appear at large venues but still are "star power" and get air time on radio.
This is not to put down Morley, for it's in a beautiful setting, but it does not have the connections to national and international talent agencies that the Coeval does have.
The question I have is how much seating would be available. That is key in bringing in acts. Another would be the design of the ampthitheater since it couldn't eat into the parking spaces already available. The article doesn't give the precise location where it would go, and how it would be designed to only admit ticket holders, since it's obvious that it could be sustainable by making events free to the public except on a very limited basis.
At present it's only in the talking stage, so there is nothing yet carved in stone about it ever becoming a reality, so anything we might say would only be hypathetical
The Morley would be a great place where local talent could be showcased without constructing a new building.
I agree Jay BUT an amphitheater at Coeval would not be to showcase "local talent" just as the center itself is not to show local talent.
Certainly there are local bands that have large followings but you don't see them performing at Morley, but for the lesser known bands, Morley would be ideal.
I.m absolutely certain that Ron could address this better than I, but there are a large number of bands that are getting their national recognition by appearing in concerts with big name bands, which means that they are good in their own right, and a smaller venue could book them in.
Another thing occurred to me. While Morley can accommodate 3000, there is no permanent seating, and IF an amphitheater is built downtown, and that is an IF, there should be permanent seating.
Morley is in a park setting and it's seating is appropriate for that venue, but an amphitheater downtown is a whole different animal with different requirements and it's technical requirements are different both in terms of sound and lighting.
I agree that the city needs to pay down, or pay off, the debt on Covelli Center
before making any MAJOR investments into it - aside from any obvious stuff
like maintenance or repairs.
When the former Wean United building next to the Market Street bridge is
gone it will free up some more land close to Covelli....which opens up
some possibilities for the future......
This could very well be another one of those throw it up against a wall and see if it sticks ideas, but then who dreamed that Powers would become what it is today? Sure Powers did it with private funds as opposed to government grants, and in my personal view is being under used, but then as I look at other venues in other cities our size, and find that this is not unusual.
Given the tone of the article, I don't think that we'll hear any more about it in the days to come, so I hardly think that we have anything to worry about the city actually authorizing it.
City Council will decide today whether to allow the mayor to spend $90,000 to hire a firm to do design and engineering work for the proposed amphitheater.
How will council vote?
I would really like to wait till we can see a preliminary design for an amphitheater as to location and seating size.
I don't know if anyone remembers, but a number of years ago, the city built an amphitheater on East Federal Street and it was a miserable failure due in no small part to its size and seating capacity.
A downtown amphitheater would be welcome, but it must be technically and logistically possable for it to support itself and bring in the kind of shows that would draw crowds, and we do not have the kind of outdoor theater that is equipped to bring in the kind of shows that tour today ... special effects lighting ... sound ... a large enough stage to support the larger shows ... seating is also critical since it would not be located in a park setting like Morley which is a great venue even though it is under used.
Because it would be located in a confined space as opposed to Morley, it would be critical to not only in crowd control, but allow for parking spaces by not tampering with the present parking area.
Again, unlike Morley, it must be able to support itself financially which means that most of the shows would have to charge admissions.
Is Lynsey a part of this project, she should be, she ran the outdoor movies from scratch when Kidd bailed?
Again, agreed, and by working with Covelli, it would give her access to tools that she doesn't already have to book in great shows.
Here is how I vision the ampitheater in a scaled down version.
All seven councilmen voted for the expenditure.
This is good news, now lets hope that once it's up and running that they will let Covelli manage it, and not stick their collective noses in to it.
My hope is that whoever is chosen will give us a product that we can not only be proud of, but will also embrace all the new technology that is required in an amphitheater using European models, and that seating would be permanent as opposed to having patrons bringing in lawn chairs or sitting on the ground. Near the stage, there should be room to place tables for VIP Patrons. and there should be at least three isles.
Surrounding the area should be a barrier to the seating area since the idea is to charge admission to that area.
In locating the amphitheater, it should run parallel with Front Street so as to maximize the size of the facility without compromising the Covelli parking area, and should allow at least 2000 permanent seats pr at the very least 1500.
The stage area should be a domed shell that allows sound to be projected with a sufficient wings space on either side.
Behind the stage area should be two dressing rooms, a green room, two toilets. a master utility room, and sufficient area for keeping the grips of the performers without interfering with free flowing of back stage movement.
There must also be space off stage for the person operating the mixers and lighting to see the show without detracting from the show. One could be at stage left and the other stage right, and at the back of the stage should be a double door to allow stage hands set the stage, but when they are closed, they become invisable to the audience.
Above the stage should be sufficient flys and lighting bars, and at the front of the stage footlights with multi-colored lights.
At the rear of the ampthitheater should be a tower for spotlights that could also house movie projectors.
According to today's Vindicator, the plan calls for a stage, temporary seating for about 500 and the remaining folks would sprawl out on a lawn.
NO VISION and a lot of input from people that haven't the slightest notion about what a real amphitheater really is all about.
This venue MUST be able to pay for itself and not be a burden on the tax payers.
None of the characters in City Hall have the foggiest notion about the theater, and they have even less knowledge about what it costs to put on a decent show.
Were Eric or whoever to book a big group to play the Amphitheater, they would need more than a simple stage with no technical facilities, nor would they want to run back and forth between the Covelli Center and the amphitheater during a show.
Who made anyone in City Council or the Board of Control the almighty experts on theater management and design?
Unless they put it in the hands of REAL EXPERTS, it's doomed to fail just as the last downtown amphitheater failed.
. http://www.vindy.com/news/2013/dec/19/city-first-will-seek-funds-for-amphithea/ (http://www.vindy.com/news/2013/dec/19/city-first-will-seek-funds-for-amphithea/)
I agree with Towntalk on the built-in seating....should be more than 500
persons worth of permanent seats. The more durable, the better.
For three years I worked at one of the local theater venues as a second job, and got a real insider education on what it takes to put on a show worth it's salt, and the sort of venue that is being talked about just won't cut it. I worked everything from one man shows to large productions, and let me tell you that if they follow through with their plan, it will end up like the Morley, sitting unused most of the season, and most of the shows that were held there would be free, AT TAX PAYERS EXPENSE.
Youngstown deserves better ... MUCH BETTER!
Events at the Morley have been unwritten by the 7Up beverage company and a local newspaper.
That's fine Jay, but how many shows are there at the Morley per year? And who says that the downtown amphitheater has to be a mirror image of Morley? Can the entire Youngstown Symphony Orchestra fit in the Morley stage ... no. A slimmed down orchestra ... yes, but the full orchestra ... no. Is Morley equipped to do a show where there is special effects lighting such as you see with a lot of today's Rock bands? No. Can Morley do a multimedia concert ... no. It serves it's purpose for Mill Creek Park but as a full scale entertainment venue it isn't.
The city is dreaming if it thinks that the downtown amphitheater can be sustainable as a freebie venue? The last downtown amphitheater failed miserably. It was nothing but a small open stage squeezed onto East Federal Street and there were very few events that even used it.
What the city is talking about is placing a number of features there that are a metter fit for Mill Creek Park, but are not a fit for the central business district.
Tell us Jay, how can what Dave Bozanich is talking about be good fit to that area ... a park setting ... a hike/bike trail ... a little water feature? My goodness we're talking about downtown Youngstown not Mill Creek Park, and we're talking about a limited space to do all that in.
Remember when Jack Hunter turned Federal Street into Federal Plaza ... did that work? No, it turned into a miserable failure.
Again, how many acres are we talking about? Actual acres that would include all these grand ideas that he comes up with? He can't reduce the parking area for Covelli without doing harm to that venue, and he's constrained from building right up to the river, so where is all this going to go in order to give it an attractive area?
Forget the space west of the Market Street Bridge for the time being, and just concentrate on the area east of the bridge.
Here is a link to a Google Map of the Covelli Center area that shows just a limited amount of undeveloped space. How can you fit all the things that Bozanich is talking about in that space?
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=covelli+center&ie=UTF-8&ei=ivCyUvyFH4PlyQGP4YGQAw&sqi=2&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=covelli+center&ie=UTF-8&ei=ivCyUvyFH4PlyQGP4YGQAw&sqi=2&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg)
By yhe way, here is the correct definition of an amphitheater:
A contemporary amphitheatre, the sense in which the word has come to be used now, is a curved, acoustically vibrant performance space, particularly one located outdoors. Contemporary amphitheatres often include standing structures, called bandshells (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandshell), sometimes curved or bowl-shaped, both behind the stage and behind the audience, creating an area which echoes or amplifies sound, making the amphitheatre ideal for musical or theatrical performances. Most are semicircular in shape, so they should not properly be called amphitheatres.
A video clip of the mayor was on the TV news this morning. He was explaining how the city now has control of the food concessions at the convocation center and makes a lot of money to help pay off the debt.
If concert goers eat inside the convocation center or at an amphitheater, they will be less likely to dine at the existing downtown restaurants. Remember what recently happened to the restaurant situated closest to the convocation center?
Why is it that the venues on West Federal ... ie Powers and Oakland do not impact the restaurants nearby? In point of fact they benefit whenever there is an event at those venues.
And just how many restaurants are/were near Covelli?
Could it have been a case of the restaurants not serving quality products?
Overture is in the DeYor complex and it does good business before and after shows at Powers.
It seems to me that with the proper promotion that restaurants around Covelli could reap the benefits ... show specials ... reasonable prices and quality staffing along with a pleasing atmosphere go a long way toward the success of any restaurant.
Another view
By the way, Covelli doesn't have events every week, so those restaurants that are near it do have the opportunity to cash in, so your premise is flawed when you say that Covelli harms them.
Another question, just how many can be seated at those restaurants? Also how much publicity do they do to promote their business? And what are their customer ratings? Could a party go there, be seated and served in say 10 to 15 minutes? What is the eye appeal if those restaurants? All these things make or break any restaurant.
How is the food presented, and how much effort is made to fill a customers special requests?
If you've ever watched Restaurant Imposable on the Food Network you can see just how important all these things are to the success of a restaurant. When a party goes out to attend an event, that is special, and they want something more than a McDonald style restaurant to dine at. The events at Covelli are big ticket events so people are more particular about where they dine, at least that's true with the crowd I associate with.
As an alternative to an amphitheater, the city should consider a pavilion which would be more cost effective both to design and construct. This style could incorporate all the technical equipment that would be needed ... lighting and sound ... and could also have a wide screen that could be lowered for showing movies.
There's more talk, and talk is all it is at this point because the city doesn't have the funds, and no one in the private sector has stepped forward to provide the money, about building an amphitheater on the site of the demolished portion of the Wean United complex (10.43 acres).
The First Ward Council Woman would like to see that acreage turned into an entertainment/housing/shopping complex but admits that there simply isn't the money for it.
Another idea being tossed around is for the acreage to be turned into an additional parking lot for the Covelli Center.
The biggest problem with our city officials is the fact that they keep throwing out grand schemes before they even know if they can afford to actually carry them out in a timely fashion.
Quote from: jay on December 19, 2013, 10:30:21 AM
A video clip of the mayor was on the TV news this morning. He was explaining how the city now has control of the food concessions at the convocation center and makes a lot of money to help pay off the debt.
If concert goers eat inside the convocation center or at an amphitheater, they will be less likely to dine at the existing downtown restaurants. Remember what recently happened to the restaurant situated closest to the convocation center?
If the events at the convocation center have several thousand people in attendance,
surely the nearby restaurants will get some patronage, just by the sheer number of
attendees.
Not everyone who attends events there will eat there, as some will want to go out for
drinks, food, coffee afterward.
Either way, the city gets some money.
I don't know if programs are given out at concerts and other events at Covelli, but I do know as an absolute undeniable fact that at events at DeYor/Powers programs are given out, and in those programs are ads including ads for restaurants. There is nothing stopping Covelli from giving out programs if they don't already, and there is nothing stopping the downtown restaurants from placing an ad in them.
Here's an idea worth promoting ... ads with coupons for specials at the downtown restaurants as inserts in the programs.
At DeYor/Powers, inserts are the norm advertising upcoming shows so this is nothing unique.
If all the downtown restaurants were to combine their efforts this way, the cost for the inserts would be minable and everyone would benefit.
Two ideas:
1). Advertise on the big electronic display that circles the interior of the convocation
center. No flyers needed, but either medium would work.
2) Participating restaurants could offer specials for anyone who can show their
TICKET STUBS from that evening's event at the Convocation center. This would
specifically target attendees of the event.
Both are good ideas, and if the restaurants were to go into it as a co-op, they could keep the price at a reasonable rate.
The idea of the program insers offers the opportunity for coupons while most folks throw away their ticket stubs. Many more take their programs with them at Powers events than ticket stubs which is why the program inserts would have more value. I know from personal experience that I still have all the programs that I received at Powers events ... there must be a dozen or so.
Good point, re:ticket stubs, Towntalk...hmmm....maybe the ad on the
display could tell them to keep their stubs(?)
Maybe the downtown restaurants could approach the management at
Convocation about printing something on the ticket stubs mentioning
the specials if they present them at any downtown restaurant(?)
just tossing that out there.....flyers are still another great approach....
What ever became of this bright idea. It seems that City Hall is tossing doggy do up against a brick wall to see what sticks.
Quote from: Towntalk on July 20, 2014, 10:44:27 AM
What ever became of this bright idea. It seems that City Hall is tossing doggy do up against a brick wall to see what sticks.
Does that surprise you TT? :D
Nothing in this God forsaken city surprises me Peggy.
naawwww it's not God forsaken, it is PEOPLE forsaken, with a bunch of nutcases (for the mostpart) at the helm.
Don't mind me today, I'm just in one of those moods ... I know a whole lot of swell people here on town, and they all are here on mahoningvalley.info.
I try not to vent my spleen here, but ever since I shut down my newsletter, I don'thave any way of venting my frustrations with what's going on here in town, so I have to cut loose here without intending to target any of my friends. God knows I need all the friends I can get in my old age since I have no real family here in town ... they're all either in Pennsylvania or Texas.
Vent away. Doesn't bother me a bit. ;)
Tonight, as I was working on my pet project, I got to thinking about stuff, serious, not serious, and just plain stupid and I said to myself "Me, what's life all about?", and with a shrug of the shoulders, "What?' and I answered, "What the blue blazes is life all about."
After scratching my head, while deep in thought, I said: "If I were half as smart as I think I am, I'd just sit back and enjoy the real world according to Me and stop getting worked up by pipe dreams that will never happen such as a new ampthatheater downtown."
tt, rome was not built in a day. the theater will be blt along side the kirwins and trafficant canal.